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Posted by kareiva 23 hours ago

A joke domain purchase turned in geopolitical warfare(sprocketfox.io)
919 points | 146 comments
monitron 17 hours ago|
This was fascinating, thank you. I expected to read about legal threats against the folks collecting this data and am glad that those didn't materialize.

Also I only realized after finishing the article what a breath of fresh air it was to read something that came straight from another human's brain without LLM intermediation. Thank you to the author for that too.

Onavo 16 hours ago||
>I expected to read about legal threats against the folks collecting this data and am glad that those didn't materialize.

That's because the author folded over and played nice. Imagine if he exercised his first amendment rights.

dalemyers 15 hours ago|||
They are Australian. Don't everyone is from the US just because they speak English.
Onavo 13 hours ago|||
Regardless, he chose to fold.
moffkalast 3 hours ago||
Revealing his own country's defences online doesn't seem like the best idea tbf. Even though all of what they found and more is arguably already tracked with satellites with orders of magnitude more accuracy by every superpower, I'm sure second and third rate ones wouldn't mind the help.
rexpop 12 hours ago|||
The rights delineated in the American Constitution are understood to precede the government being held to account for them. Furthermore, they are held to be universal, natural rights.
wiml 4 hours ago|||
I think you're getting the Declaration and the Constitution a little mixed up. Also conflating "free speech" with "the first amendment", but everyone does that so they can motte-and-bailey.
chabska 8 hours ago||||
You would think that the right to bear arms would extend to Iran developing a nuclear warhead though.
MacsHeadroom 3 hours ago||
Natural rights belong to individuals, not states. Iran is a government; governments hold powers, not inalienable rights. The analogy collapses before reaching the question of nuclear weapons.
FartinMowler 16 minutes ago|||
Interesting interpretation given the the 2nd Amendment gives the right to "a well regulated militia" and not to individuals including crazed yahoos and criminals. Sadly for millions of butchered Americans, US courts have agreed with your interpretation.
asdfsa32 2 hours ago|||
But do Iranians have a right for self-determination? How about Israelis?
dghf 2 hours ago||||
The right to a trial by jury in civil suits where the sum in dispute is greater than US$20 is a universal natural right?
tomlockwood 12 hours ago||||
Says who?
gambiting 12 hours ago|||
...is that what Americans believe?
digitalmonstars 7 hours ago|||
[flagged]
geoduck14 10 hours ago||
>Also I only realized after finishing the article what a breath of fresh air it was to read something that came straight from another human's brain without LLM intermediation.

I found it a little difficult to follow

xur17 19 hours ago||
It's fun to see habhub in an article. ~10 years ago a group of friends and I launched 2 weather balloons for fun with a GPS logger, APRS transmitter, and a few sensors, and then retrieved it afterwards.

I have a bunch of memorable experiences from it, including:

1. Under inflating the first balloon because our helium provider was closed, and instead buying lower pressure "party" balloon containers (and not realizing until too late that lower pressure meant more helium left in the containers)

2. Chasing down the balloon at night and trying to explain why you wanted to walk onto some guys field to check for a weather balloon

3. Later calling a gas station to ask if "some guy just arrived with a weather balloon in their truck" when trying to track down the balloon

If anyone has kids and wants a fun project, I highly recommend it. There are a few companies online that sell kits, and it's neat to watch the different layers of the atmosphere (temperature and wind), and try to "chase" after the balloon and find it afterwards.

101008 19 hours ago||
I had this idea before of sending ballons to "the space" with a collectible object and then retrieve them, saying "I have this specific object that was in space too". Is it possible or am I dreaming too much?
notagoodidea 16 hours ago|||
Depending on your definition of space, this is what the Earth To Sky does to finance their helium balloons runs: https://www.earthtosky.store/about. I got a pendant for my partner, it was a nice gift.
gaudystead 13 hours ago||
Your username betrays you, because this is indeed a good idea. Thank you for sharing! I'd never heard of this, but now have some cool gift ideas for family & friends. :)
pjc50 18 hours ago||||
People do that routinely-ish.

https://www.youtube.com/live/Let4NxZRnMA

TylerE 16 hours ago||||
For reasonable definitions of "in space" doesn't really cut it. Balloons top out at around 120,000ft unless you're getting super exotic, and that'll only get you another 20k ft or so. Not even out of the stratosphere. Not space by any reasonable definition.

About the lowest thing that could reasonably be called space is the Karmin line, and that's at 100km, or 330,000ft.

LtWorf 13 hours ago|||
Lego did a video of that, they sent one of their space stations sets. I'm quite sure they glued it.
4petesake 11 hours ago||
The Kraggle?!?!? Say it ain't so, Lego!
cronin101 19 hours ago|||
Can you “just do this” or is there some preapproval you’re meant to get beforehand? Presumably the answer varies wildly by jurisdiction.
xur17 19 hours ago|||
We did it in the US, and filed a NOTAM with the FAA. The hardest part was figuring out how to convert what I had (we are launching a weather balloon from X, Y coords at Z time) to what they wanted (distance, direction, etc from nearest air tower). It's just a phone number you call, and they were pretty friendly (helping convert my lat / lng to what they needed).
moffkalast 3 hours ago||
Well if the article is anything to go by, the FAA is barely aware of that part of themselves haha.
colechristensen 19 hours ago|||
There are rules you have to understand and follow, notifications required but no approvals if you meet certain criteria. It's mostly an FAA thing in the US, so one jurisdiction.
dylan604 18 hours ago|||
We did a similar thing, only we intentionally made it more difficult on ourselves by launching at sunset because we were hoping to grab the view of city lights at night with the GoPros. Also, we did not have any licensed radio operators in our group, so no fun equipment like that. We instead depended on a consumer GPS tracker that updated once ever 5 minutes. We also had an Arduino with various sensors attached, but that was for me as the main purpose was the video footage.

Some of the memorable experiences from it:

1) Purchasing equipment to do a Hydrogen launch because this was during a Helium shortage and the cost difference was significant. Arrived at store to pick up our Hydrogen tank where the guy working took a look at us knuckleheads and had serious reservations about selling us inexperienced dorks Hydrogen. Took pity on us and swapped out all of our fittings (hydrogen fittings are specific to prevent accidental use of hydrogen) and sold us the tank of Helium for a much cheaper price than what we were originally told.

2) Printing up stickers to attach to the payload box with "If Found" contact instructions only to realize one second after letting go of the payload that you forgot to attach said stickers.

3) The terror of realizing that when the balloon took off that it immediately headed west when the flight predictions you had been running for the previous days before all showed the balloon landed east.

4) Having to contact ATC to report the launch of the balloon, only to be told they needed further updates at every 10,000' feet.

5) The terror setting in deeper when the consumer GPS unit stopped responding after 30,000' altitude and then having ATC scold how unprofessional we were for using cheap devices. At least they told us they were still tracking it.

6) The shenanigans a group of knuckleheads got up to waiting the ~3 hours for the balloon to land.

7) The relief when the consumer GPS unit started pinging updates again on the way down and the laugh (with us not at us) from ATC that we could start reporting back again.

8) Using mobile Google Maps to attempt to find the GPS location. Wandering around fields in the middle of the night to find a strange circular pattern of out of place plants to realize it was from a deer feeder's throw. Then searching for the nearby camera trap to wave to leave some hunter with serious WTF.

9) Nearly giving up on the search until deciding to use the hotspot to look up the GPS coordinates not on a mobile device to see that the balloon was less than 300' from where we parked making the hours spent wandering really dumb.

gambiting 16 hours ago|||
That's incredible.
fragmede 14 hours ago|||
> The terror setting in deeper when the consumer GPS unit stopped responding after 30,000' altitude

Ah yes, the CoCom export control limits so you can't use it to build an ICBM. Legally they're supposed to stop working above 60,000 ft and 1,200 mph, but some manufacturers interpret that as an "or". The rumor was that some really cheap chips out of China failed to implement either, so if you'd bought a crappier gps module, you might have been fine!

That's an awesome story tho!

wolvoleo 12 hours ago||
Ummmm.

Any country with the knowhow to make an ICBM can source or build a gps receive without said restriction. Just saying.

That's like putting a sign "no burglary permitted" and leaving the door wide open.

walrus01 3 hours ago|||
I've recently seen a very concrete example of a Chinese CRPA GPS/Glonass/Galileo receiver which is being integrated into some Russian UAVs. It's a COTS thing the vendor in China will sell to anyone. In addition to not obeying any arbitrary limits on GPS speed/altitude it's a 4-element small array for better signal discrimination.
tonyarkles 8 hours ago||||
You’ve just described a significant amount of ITAR. Am Canadian but have to deal with it occasionally. MWIR/LWIR imagers are another prime example. I can order way better (spec-wise at least) IR sensors from AliExpress than I can from the US. Something about high frame rate IR being useful for some kind of guidance towards hot things shrug
mey 7 hours ago||
Explosions&Fire has an interesting video on this. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XHDXk9THJZM

Well indirectly about how they work and to counter them.

toast0 11 hours ago|||
Just cause the rule is dumb doesn't mean it can be ignored...
Aurornis 19 hours ago|||
Were you able to find the balloon? Your last point has me wondering what happened. Did someone else get to it first?
xur17 19 hours ago||
Yup. We were able to find it both times. First time it "floated" and traveled further than we expected (at one point habhub predicted it to land in Africa). This is the one we called a gas station about, and we did end up getting it back. Second time was cleaner, and we drove up someone's driveway, and asked if we could retrieve it.
dylan604 18 hours ago||
We had to move our launch site from where we originally wanted as 3 out of 3 predictions showed our landing site to be on an Air Force base. While I was willing to climb a barbed wire fence way out in the middle of nowhere, a fence around a base was not something I could see myself doing. I also didn't want to end up in a news story for causing military alerts. It was surprising just how far we had to go outside of the city to have it land in a spot that we'd be able to retrieve it.
folli 14 hours ago||
Can you recommend any kits? Out sounds like an extremely fun hobby.
xur17 13 hours ago||
I used this [0], but it looks like it's sold out. Guessing there might be similar options available elsewhere.

[0] https://www.highaltitudescience.com/products/eagle-pro-near-...

Firefishy 18 hours ago||
I am part of the team which runs the OpenStreetMap.org infrastructure, we also get a lot of weird and wonderful requests / emails. .mil, .gov, .edu and GeoTLD variants.

I should really do a write-up sometime.

makr17 15 hours ago||
I remember being in Tel Aviv for work, and pulling up maps to plot out a bike route from the hotel to the office. Only to find that the entire route is blurred out online. Turns out our office was a few 100 meters from something important to the IDF, so no map/route data available. Too far to reasonably walk, and didn't want to try a bike without knowing there was a reasonable route...
driverdan 11 hours ago|||
Why would a road or route be blocked from OpenStreetMaps? That doesn't really provide any security if the area is public.
adastra22 7 hours ago||
In what way do you mean “public”?
frantathefranta 11 hours ago||||
This does remind me of driving on the western edge of the Dead Sea in 2014 with my family. The only device we had that was capable of 3G-less navigation was my Nokia Lumia 620 (windows phone) with bing maps. I had maps downloaded for all of Israel and Palestine, but they refused to work at that particular spot. Still not sure if it was some kind of GPS/map blocking or just being at a really low altitude. Pretty sure that once we passed Jericho and turned towards Jerusalem, it started working again.
brohee 18 minutes ago||
I suspect a lot of software does not behave well at negative altitude. I heard of an ECU having trouble on one of the rare negative altitude roads.
walrus01 3 hours ago||||
Did something like the android 'osmand' app with offline openstreetmap data for .IL downloaded function?
throwaway2037 9 hours ago||||
Stupid question: Did you rent the bike? You nerd sniped me here! How did you have a bike on a work trip? That sounds fun.
porjo 5 hours ago||
Afaik Tel Aviv has city wide bike share, so guessing that's what OP was using.
throwaway2037 2 hours ago||
Cool, I was not aware. I found the website here: https://metrofun.co.il/
MagicMoonlight 3 hours ago||||
[dead]
slim 10 hours ago|||
[flagged]
walrus01 3 hours ago|||
You should compare notes with the trove of weird emails that Daniel at haxx.se gets (the curl guy) because his email address is in the curl license text appended in the fine print of a bunch of products.

https://daniel.haxx.se/email/

yhvr 16 hours ago|||
I encourage you to make it! That sounds like it could be a really fun read.
matkoniecz 12 hours ago||
I really want to read this!
wongarsu 17 hours ago||
"Our transmitters shut down after a certain period of time, at the latest when the battery capacity is exhausted. This is due, among other things, to strategic considerations."

Among other things. And this was the most sane part of Meteolabor's email

ButlerianJihad 15 hours ago|
If the transmitters continued to operate after battery exhaustion, then I may begin to question the laws of physics, as well as my life choices
chabska 8 hours ago|||
It's weirdly phrased, but it just means that they don't have a tight control for battery capacity. Their device is designed to operate for at most ten hours (for example), but the battery that they use could have anywhere between 8-12 hours of supply, so the transmitter would be active anywhere between 8-10 hours.
wongarsu 2 hours ago||
In your scenario the device shuts done when the battery runs out, but at the latest after 10 hours. That's different from "at the latest when the battery capacity is exhausted".

Instead the implied mode of operation is that they shut down after 10 hours, but sometimes they dont and after 12 hours the battery is empty. Or maybe it's another trigger (location?) that is not always active or does not always trigger

kridsdale1 14 hours ago||||
They just have access to classified physics and definitions of energy most people don’t have.
elictronic 12 hours ago|||
Small solar panel and a charge controller. Defeat physics with this one trick.
wongarsu 2 hours ago||
My transmitter shuts down after a certain amount of time. At the latest when the solar panel is heavily degraded. This is due, among other things, to strategic considerations
iamnothere 21 hours ago||
The part where he gets contacted over the hit-and-run reads like the curl guy’s experience with people investigating “hacking”.

I wonder how often this happens outside of software? Do fence manufacturers get emails asking to identify the culprit when someone crashes through a fence?

ikidd 20 hours ago||
Actually, it wasn't unreasonable. If the guy caused the damage while picking up a sonde, to know who's sonde it was would help identify the culprit.
walrus01 3 hours ago|||
Responding to an email like that has basically no possible benefits for the person running the balloon tracking website, but it does introduce the possibility of some fool paying their lawyer to add you as a respondent in a lawsuit. Costing you many thousands of dollars at minimum in legal fees and travel even if you get the court to remove you from the case. Never respond to something like that unless your lawyer, whom you pay has instructed you to.

A person like that sending inquiries to website/API operators demanding data, ignore it. Always. Continue to ignore it until a process server actually shows up on your doorstep and serves you, in which case you know they're at least moderately serious, and then you need to engage your own counsel to deal with it.

dlgeek 20 hours ago||||
Or maybe the sonde continued transmitting and they have data on where the guy took it which would help ID him.
myself248 11 hours ago||||
Or if they'd been foolish enough to log the recovery on sondehub itself, which some of us do frequently (but not after causing property damage!).
iamnothere 20 hours ago|||
Fair, I guess, I just can’t imagine what it’s like getting all these weird requests and demands for a hobby project. Hopefully the author is more entertained than I would be.
lq9AJ8yrfs 19 hours ago||
Not a lawyer but as a citizen I generally understand that the courts expect demands from court parties to be met.

If meeting the court's (or court parties') demands costs you something you are generally entitled to charge them for it, within reason and with justification.

As a hobbyist therefore putting a service offering page together with your preferred rate probably helps establish the nature and parameters of any such service.

Bill rates / piece rates, especially, and setting up bounds of what is reasonable to expect, in proportion to your gig and your intended effort level.

Quantity and price tiers, turnaround times, what will be included in the deliverable, how it will be delivered, SLAs, etc.

Whatever defines your service, esp as it relates to the types of requests you end up getting.

iamnothere 19 hours ago||
If I start listing prices, I may need to ensure that I have a business entity set up for tax purposes and to guard against liability. Especially if I’m listing SLAs.

This is not a hobby, it’s a job.

This is why all my hobbies are dark web projects, these days.

Nextgrid 16 hours ago||
You only need to have a business entity (which, to be fair, can be yourself, although liability concerns apply) once you're about to actually enter into a contract with someone.

Merely listing prices (without an associated automated payment form which could imply a contract was en force upon successful payment) doesn't actually force you to do business with anyone. It would however 1) deter requests for unpaid work by giving them an idea of what it would cost to get what they're looking for and 2) give you an idea of the demand for said services and could give you a warm lead which you can then choose to pursue formally by getting the necessary business structure, legal/business advice, etc.

JoshTriplett 13 hours ago||
> Merely listing prices (without an associated automated payment form which could imply a contract was en force upon successful payment) doesn't actually force you to do business with anyone.

In some cases it could. If you want to say "we categorically don't do X for ethical reasons", that can sometimes be more easily defensible in a way that "we have a standard price for doing this, but we don't want to do it for you in particular" may be harder to defend. (Even though I think both should always be possible.)

BowBun 20 hours ago|||
I feel like it's a "cast a wide net" type of strategy. Doesn't really hurt to ask and there _could_ be the tiniest hint that could lead to something. Maybe?
genghisjahn 20 hours ago|||
In my first law class the prof said, "When it doubt, sue everybody."
digitalmonstars 7 hours ago|||
Specially when the goal may not even be to find and demand anything from a culprit, but simply to prove there was a culprit.

Insurance. This is about insurance.

See, in my country, you could not use a car's dashcam recording as evidence in a small claims court. But I could 100% use it with insurance. They don't abide by the same rules of what counts as evidence.

TZubiri 19 hours ago||
Rings a bell, I think it was because Curl showed up as the user agent for malicious activity.

You have to be kind of lost to contact Daniel about it, but I think it's ok behaviour for junior sysadmins that are just starting out, everyone was starting out sometime, and curl is like a lightning catcher for the world's daily lucky thousand.

Arrowmaster 19 hours ago||
It's because curl is often embedded as a library or standalone executable with other software. So when a malicious or compromised piece of software is found, a less experienced investigator might see curl with its author tags in the file metadata, and follow it back to upstream.
giancarlostoro 17 hours ago||
Back in the late 2000s when I was just becoming an adult, but still talking to people younger than me on the web, I knew this kid who was maybe 16, he bought a very offensive domain, we were big on 4chan shenanigans (I'll let you imagine the worst thing). I had to intervene when I realized and point out to him, that his first and last name can be looked up by anyone, anywhere, and his address. He started to panic and I forget what we even did, but I think I immediately told him to just change the first and last to literally anything else, find a valid plausible address and adjust it, and just basically abandon the account as soon as possible. Been quite a while since I ever spoke to them, hope they learned their lesson.

The dumb careless things that teens do on the web.

m-i-l 20 hours ago||
In the UK a few decades ago, if you found a radiosonde from a weather balloon, it would have instructions on how to claim a recovery fee if you returned it for reuse. Sadly I never found one, but I knew this because my dad was a geophysicist and we lived at the time on a Scottish island which was one of the UK's launch spots. Looks like the recovery fee was stopped a long time ago, when the devices became cheap enough to be effectively disposable.
m463 17 hours ago|
reminds me of keys/badges with "drop in any mailbox" instructions that recover them.
aleksejs 10 hours ago||
This is an official USPS service available to anyone willing to attach their address and "a statement guaranteeing payment of postage due on delivery" to their keys! Which is neat but kind of awkward if that's also the address of the door the keys open.

(per section 1.6 of USPS DMM 133 at https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/133.htm)

m463 7 hours ago||
no media mail rates. Will have to return that overdue book to the library in person.
rawling 15 hours ago||
How did they pivot from just providing a redirect to

> we decided to start proxying radiosonde ingestion data through SondeHub

Redirecting to the habhub UI doesn't seem like it would also let them intercept people uploading their data to habhub.

drdexebtjl 9 hours ago|
I didn’t understand that part either.
martianvoid 21 hours ago||
Slightly unrelated but I have no idea how wind speed predictions are made up high in the altitudes, is it just interpolation of data that are get from various radiosonoids across various timestamps and finding a regular or seasonal pattern?
wood_spirit 21 hours ago||
Generally at altitude the wind goes from west to east. During the Cold War the US would launch spy balloons to overfly Russia whilst the wind was blowing against the Russians reciprocating. This is generally true in the current Ukraine war too.

Some interesting links:

https://www.hisutton.com/US-Navy-CIA-Submarine-Launched-Spy-...

https://www.hisutton.com/Chinese-Navy-High-Altitude-Spy-Ball...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iD6XaaO9bEo

jxf 21 hours ago|||
As I understand it, it's a combination of things: aircraft reports, atmospheric motion vectors (e.g. a cloud doesn't have any propulsion, so if a cloud moves 30 km in an hour, you have learned something about the wind), Doppler wind lidar, and satellite measurements.

The numerical predictions of weather models often have many vertical components as well, so solving it for ground level also requires extending the forecast to the air, depending on the model.

lgeorget 21 hours ago||
To predict anything on the ground, you have to predict air temperature, humidity, wind speed and direction etc. for the entire troposphere. The output of the models in altitude are as relevant to the meteorologists as the output on the ground for manual expert analysis.
buildsjets 18 hours ago||
Not just wind speed, but all kinds of weather data can be extracted from radiosonde recordings. The data output is called a Skew-T Log-P graph. Some examples of how to interpret them at https://www.weather.gov/source/zhu/ZHU_Training_Page/convect...

There are of course several different global weather models that predict the behavior of the atmosphere, and it is a lot more complicated than just interpolating past data. But they all do rely on radiosonde data for daily calibration of actual atmospheric conditions.

sharpshadow 2 hours ago|
TIL that everyday 1000s weather balloons fall into the ocean. The reverse prediction engine sounds neat and with thousands of balloons send out everyday reverse predicting their starting locations draws a comprehensive map over time.
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