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Posted by datakan 2 days ago

LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'(www.tomshardware.com)
https://www.lg.com/global/newsroom/news/statements/statement...
496 points | 390 commentspage 6
tracerbulletx 14 hours ago|
The leaked advertising pitch videos from them where they say "we own the glass" as a pitch to potential advertising partners, about a tv they sold me just viscerally pissed me off so I'm kind of just done with them even if thats an irrationally strong response. The whole attitude just makes me so mad.
what-the-grump 6 hours ago||
Rooted all the TVs in the house and now I own the glass and the firmware and the DRM jail. Thanks LG for making everyone burn tokens on plugging your stupid software. But hey now we really own the device and what it does and how it does it.
illusive4080 15 hours ago||
Easy solution. Do not connect your TV to the internet.
Phemist 15 hours ago||
Also debunked in the Gamer Nexus video. The TV will scan for public wifis and connect. Watching the video, it also seemed like a "missed opportunity" for LG to not create a mesh network of LG devices that would help eachother connect to the internet. So the LG device on your neighbours wifi might help your not connected TV to some tasty internet access. Or at least to unload its cache of A(V)CR fingerprints.

LG is truly an adversial party in all of this.

ZoneZealot 15 hours ago|||
They didn't actually say it does that. They said it could do that. It doesn't (yet).
hdgvhicv 14 hours ago|||
There are so many misunderstandings about that video. Which ain’t surprising as it was longer than a movie and mainly nonsense about what it can do rather than what it does do.
semiquaver 13 hours ago||
Agreed. I’ve come to believe that the video’s benefit from bringing awareness to the issue is outweighed by how misleading it is. Massive amounts of the video were “we hacked the TV and made it do [bad thing]” and was reported as “LG TVs do [bad thing]!”
okamiueru 11 hours ago|||
Did we watch a different video? The point of hacking the TV, and making it do bad thing. Was to explain the privacy issues inherent with the hardware capabilites for video and audio recording, which combined with multiple known exploits to gain access.

It's a long video, and they cover more than one issue. Please explain what, in particular, you found was misleading.

hdgvhicv 9 hours ago||
So a Linux computer with a microphone and network access can send that mocrohpine to the Internet or record it. That’s obvious. That it can scan for WiFi networks is implied by the fact it had WiFi chip, and even exposes that functionality via the front end is also obvious. That it participates in MdNS is known for the fact it’s an mdns target.

What would be worthwhile is what is actually sent. The breathless reporting on it suggests it scans your network, I’ve never seen anything in my router logs to show any kind of port scan or even arp scan.

The only thing that’s seem to be a problem is the ages old adtech which the tech industry tends to be quite happy with as it pts so much of the bills for so many companies

ulyssys 12 hours ago|||
Disclaimer: I haven’t yet watched the video, but on the point of security: yes, when data is collected without my clear approval and full understanding, and is not done in a secure way, it matters all the more.

It’s of little concern to me that the threat is theoretical when it’s only a matter of time before a script kiddy or some bored guy with a YouTube tutorial and $20 of AI credits sets it up himself, let alone well-funded groups or motivated actors.

Unmanaged IOT devices in general are not to be trusted. LG isn’t leading with transparency nor are they big enough like Microsoft or Apple to put out bug bounties and audits with hundreds of thousands of eyeballs on them. They make the device that sits in the corner of your living room and is forgotten about. They’re being cagey about the data they collect and how they collect it, and I’m asked to take the risk on “trust me bro” and “you’re required to tell anyone within earshot of the TV’s mic that they’re being recorded”? Fuck that.

Never mind that data being exposed even if encrypted is a risk all its own: the collection can start now, and whenever it’s detected and blocked it’s too late. It can be cracked later whenever they have the tech and the time.

bubblemoth 15 hours ago|||
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the television would search for unsecured wi-fi or other ways of connecting to the internet without user input.
newsoftheday 14 hours ago|||
I agree, it would be easy for a security research to discover if a TV tried to do that and would result in an even greater stuffstorm than LG is dealing with now or that Samsung dealt with in the past.
hdgvhicv 14 hours ago||
More advertising money (the irony) by conflating capabilities of a Turing complete OS with actual behaviour
otterley 14 hours ago|||
It’s absolutely unreasonable. Each subscriber has a certain amount of fixed bandwidth available to them, and there are other devices connected to their network. By connecting an unauthorized device, that device now has both the ability to consume bandwidth to which it’s not entitled, and potentially scan the network for vulnerabilities.

It’s basically stealing.

Would you want some device connecting to your network that is not under your control?

And before you answer “well, you should lock it down,” yes, that’s true, but we do not blame the victim if they fail to do so. An unlocked door is not an invitation.

caymanjim 15 hours ago|||
I'm not sure if any TVs currently do this, but they could connect to unsecured public WiFi without the user doing anything, if one were available with no password. Fortunately such networks aren't that common most places, but it's not a big leap from the sketchy things LG and other companies do. They could also put SIMs in them if they wanted. Again, I don't know that any do that, but I wouldn't put it past them. I'm not that paranoid, but I don't trust them to be up front and ethical.

A TV not on the Internet is basically worthless these days, unless you have a third-party streaming device like a Fire or Shield--and then you're just moving the trust point from the TV itself to the streaming device, and the same concerns exist. Do you trust Amazon any more than you trust LG?

cogman10 15 hours ago|||
I'm not sure of the current state of it, but a few years back specturm was selling access to a private network based on consumer routers. Tmobile could partner with them so that one of their customers could go through spectrum instead of the cell towers in cases where connections were spotty.

That's exactly the sort of thing I could see LG piggy backing on. Your neighbor might have spectrum so the LG TV connects to it's private network to phone home.

caymanjim 14 hours ago||
Xfinity/Comcast does the same thing. By default, the router they provide has a separate WiFi network supporting their distributed WiFi service. It's only for their customers, and it's not an open no-password network, but I'm certain they would offer it to any company that paid for access. They also have WiFi APs on telephone poles to broaden coverage.

If you live in a dense city, there's a good chance you can reach an open network. When I lived in midtown Manhattan, there were around 500 SSIDs reachable from my apartment.

newsoftheday 14 hours ago|||
> A TV not on the Internet is basically worthless these days, unless you have a third-party streaming device like a Fire or Shield--and then you're just moving the trust point from the TV itself to the streaming device, and the same concerns exist.

We use a Kubuntu Linux laptop behind the TV with a wireless mouse and keyboard (for searching and stuff), stream in Chrome, works great. And yes, we trust this combination.

> Do you trust Amazon any more than you trust LG?

We don't use Amazon device products just because we use Kubuntu Linux on PC's in our home but yes based on LG's behavior we trust Amazon more and we don't put our LG TV or any of our LG appliances we bought a few years ago, on the Internet.

lokar 15 hours ago|||
I’ve had TVs that had important firmware updates that improved hdmi/atmos/etc compatibility
vasac 14 hours ago||
I have a 10-year-old LG TV that runs webOS 3. The first update slowed it down - not that it was particularly fast to begin with - and every subsequent update made it even slower. It also constantly nags you to update the firmware. You can’t just refuse once; every time you turn on the TV, it asks you again. I won’t make the same mistake the next time I go shopping for a TV.

Forgot to mention - there were no improvements whatsoever in terms of functionality.

lokar 14 hours ago||
Yeah, I find the LGs to be really annoying. The Sony seems to be much better.
ssgodderidge 15 hours ago||
Agreed. I leave my tv disconnected from the internet, and connect my Apple TV instead… the default UX on most tvs is so much slower and add-riddled than Apple’s
GrinningFool 10 hours ago||
Well. I sure am relieved.
claaams 11 hours ago||
What about the part where it's the consumers obligation to notify guests or people passing by that LG is recording and saving their voices for fuck knows what all. They didn't mention that at all.

They also specify "for advertising purposes" in the response. It's pretty selective in that wording because it implies that it may be used for other purposes.

Brosper 8 hours ago||
I remember days when Tom's Hardware was doing real hardware reviews. Today it's just another copycat tech page.

It should be Tom's Hardware thing to releal this type of a scam.

Oh-Kay_Labs 11 hours ago||
easy to prove. Open source your stuff LG.
jiggawatts 10 hours ago||
None of the complaining here has the slightest chance of changing anything.

The only way these companies get put in their place is if their products are used to exfiltrate the video or audio of a powerful politician doing something compromising.

Here in Australia cops liked to hide behind bushes at the bottom of a hill with a speed camera / radar as a revenue collection exercise. They kept fining politicians speeding between Sydney and Canberra, and used photos as evidence showing said politicians with women other than their wives in the passenger seats. So the rules were changed so every speed camera needs at least three warning signs before you reach it.

Yeah, it’s naked self interest but it’s the only way things get done in the world.

Someone, perhaps a white hat hacker, needs to start hacking into LG TVs and publishing senators’ wives screaming the name of “the help” in ecstasy while the man of the house is in DC. Or post audio of senators accepting bribes. Whatever, use your imagination!

Suddenly, almost miraculously, privacy will matter, LG executives will be dragged over hot coals, some might even go to federal prison over wire tapping or espionage charges. Same as Huawei.

But my mark words, until a Senator feels burning hot shame over something exfiltrated from their TV, exactly zero changes will happen to consumer protection laws.

LG will do damage control for a few days.

By next week you will all forget this.

Nothing will change.

bediger4000 2 days ago||
So what? We allow people and corporations to lie under almost all circumstances, including most ads and press releases. Get them under oath, if they still deny spying, that would be a minor news item.
xyst 13 hours ago|
lg trying to spin this so hard the earth rotation may stop
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