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Posted by lukaspetersson 3 hours ago

Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously(andonlabs.com)
184 points | 183 commentspage 4
Animats 2 hours ago|
Andon's store in SF has had some press coverage.[1] "A curated boutique for slow living." It's a gift shop, at 2102 Union St. It looks like the kind of retail that trust-fund kids open. Has anyone been there?

It's just an experiment. But once this gets going, it's going to be interesting. There are a lot of underperforming businesses and CEOs out there. One way to make it after getting an MBA is to find a boring business with an older owner who's lost interest, and work out a deal to run it for a cut of the profits and a stake in the business.

The Andon people mentioned that they've been worried about "a misaligned AI (could) run a business to gather money in order to achieve whatever objectives it might have." That's a basic function of capitalism, so it will happen eventually.

What this adds up to is that when AIs get better at running businesses than many business owners, the "creative destruction" feature of capitalism means AIs ends up in charge of many businesses. The AIs don't even have to be super intelligent, just reasonably good. Reminds me of the remark from a Yosemite park ranger about bear-resistant trash cans: "There is considerable overlap between the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists".

It's going to be hard to stop this without a worldwide crackdown on ownership concealment. The US allows you to have a US business run by a Nevada LLC partly owned by a corporation in Nevis-St Kitts and another corporation in Granada. This isn't even unusual. Try to find out who really owns an oil tanker not owned by a major oil company. Right now, a fund partly run by an AI might have partial ownership.

This is how AI takes over. Not with an army of robots. With an army of LLCs.

[1] https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/san-francisco-market-ai...

gizajob 2 hours ago|
“It’s only a matter of time before we make a profit”. This is the kind of thing that trust fund kids say too: Oh hey yeah we made $100 in profit this week it’s working! (Business is currently $350,000 in the red and emailing the FBI to try and get their bank manager fired for terrorism).
lioeters 2 hours ago||
Trust fund kids have the time and resources to keep trying until they succeed. They can afford the failures, and brute force their way to success. Same with people who have access to "free money". It's a rigged game.
brushfoot 1 hour ago||
Meanwhile, Tesla support's AI hallucinated a whole series of steps for me to follow last week. I was trying to add myself to my wife's loaner vehicle.

I called back after finding the steps were impossible to complete. Would I need to go to the service center to do it?

"Akshually," the AI began, the steps were correct and quite possible.

"No, you hallucinated them," I pushed back.

"I apologize. You're right. There's no way to complete those steps in the app. You will need to go into the service center to do this."

"Okay. Is it open today?"

"Yes."

"It's Labor Day. Are you sure? Since you hallucinated your first answer."

"Let me transfer you to the service center to verify."

That's what I wanted all along, you clinking, clanking, clattering collection of caliginous --

"Tesla service center, this is so-and-so. How can I help you?"

"Hi, I was just wondering if you're open today."

"Yes, we are."

"Thanks! I'm trying to add myself to my wife's loaner vehicle. Do I have to come in to do that?"

"Well, our loaner agreement only allows one person on the loaner. So just sign in to her account on your phone."

"Oh, okay! Thanks for the help."

Good luck running a company on one of these clankers.

scroot 1 hour ago||
To what end?
tantalor 25 minutes ago|
> They’d make goods and services radically cheaper, and come up with new ones we can’t yet imagine.
mmastrac 1 hour ago||
Andon Cafe:

Revenue: 13 933 kr

Token Cost: 14 882 kr

.. and a bastardization of the old Twitter joke:

"I told our CEO that our cafe keeps hitting its token spending limit but not making money. So I asked where he gets the tokens, and he said he just buys more credits from the console afterwards. So I said it sounds like he's building a machine to feed dollars to Anthropic, and then our data scientist started crying."

lukaspetersson 1 hour ago|
We're very explicit that this is for experimentation. And I wouldn't recommend using it to start a business that has expenses (rent+salaries) of tens of thousands per month.
Imnimo 1 hour ago||
I like that there's a caption that says "Vending-Bench 2 scores keep climbing with each new model release." on a graph that shows that Vending-Bench scores fluctuate wildly and many new model releases are far below previous models.
caycep 1 hour ago||
what, they're not going to name it Delamain?
2OEH8eoCRo0 2 hours ago||
Businesses presumably sell things. If AIs get good enough to run a business autonomously then what are they selling that I can't just use AI to make myself?
kfse 1 hour ago||
That actually has a simple answer, for most businesses it's not that you can't do what your suppliers do for you, it's that you'd rather use your resources (time and capital) towards something else because that's where they generate the most value.

For a simple example, I know how to make sandwiches but if I'm throwing a customer event I just want to buy them from a catering company. Then they have to deal with buying ingredients, hiring people, doing health code inspections, getting liability insurance, etc. Even if an AI could do all the management of it for me, I still wouldn't want to put in the capital resources towards it.

bee_rider 2 hours ago|||
Does the AI actually do everything, or just act as the CEO?
2OEH8eoCRo0 2 hours ago||
If the AI can't do everything then why would I let it be CEO?
bee_rider 1 hour ago||
Most human CEOs can’t do everything at their companies.
adventured 2 hours ago||
It'll ultimately take a lot of time to produce a polished product that people actually want to use. We're seeing that clearly. The vibe-code-an-app-this-weekend capability is producing almost exclusively a giant pile of worthless garbage, rather than an explosion of apps that humans want to use. It's mostly someone in a garage welding two pieces of metal together for the first time, and then roaming the neighborhood in celebration: look, look at what I have done, look, two becomes one, I have done this, look, amazing, I could probably build an airplane or a generator.

The bar will be raised + it'll turn out to require a lot more time & effort than is currently thought to produce something of good quality (even with Fable 6 et al). The smaller utility programs are easy for AI to turn out.

ac29 3 hours ago||
Relevant article about Andon Market: https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/san-francisco-market-ai...
shagie 3 hours ago|
The Swedish cafe experiment: https://apnews.com/article/ai-artificial-intelligence-sweden...

> San Francisco-based startup Andon Labs has put an artificial intelligence agent nicknamed “Mona” in charge at the eponymous Andon Café in the Swedish capital. While human baristas still brew the coffee and serve the orders, the AI agent — powered by Google’s Gemini — oversees almost every other aspect of the business, from hiring staff to managing inventory.

https://andonlabs.com/blog/ai-cafe-stockholm ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48028289 48 points, 51 comments)

https://andonlabs.com/blog/why-gemini-lost-money-andon-cafe

tinyhouse 1 hour ago|
"Any company" is a big claim to make. We're years ahead of something like this becoming a reality. At that point not sure most companies will survive cause most things will be free.
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