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Posted by Qision 1 day ago

PipePipe: NewPipe hard fork implementing SponsorBlock(github.com)
266 points | 141 comments
londons_explore 1 hour ago|
I want these things to implement peer to peer caching, so that when 10 people are watching the same video, only one downloads from youtubes own servers.

Then it's just a matter of letting people add their own videos directly to the service and it can become fully independent of YouTube.

adrianmonk 1 hour ago||
Delivering the bits is not the hard part of making a successful video platform. It's other stuff like recommendations and content discovery that is actually useful, allowing creators to monetize enough that they want to be on your platform, navigating legal issues, fighting spam and abuse, and getting enough users to sign up and start using your service.
idrios 42 minutes ago|||
Delivering the bits is a part of it though. When youtube changes its api in a way that forces NewPipe to change its algorithm, they have to push out a change that forces users to update the app. This is annoying because naturally you won't find NewPipe on the app store so updating the app is tedious for users who use it. The parent's workaround fixes some or all of this nuisance, depending on how implemented
maybewhenthesun 12 minutes ago|||
Delivering the bits might not be hard. Storing the bits is hard. Or at least expensive.
t2r3121 45 minutes ago|||
Peer to peer died because (1) a lot of the world, especially outside the US, has terrible upload/bandwidth, (2) HTTPS CDNs got _really_ cheap, far cheaper that p2p technologies like BitTorrent+WebSeed.

There are a minority of users who care about being able to host videos that violate YouTube/TikTok/Instagram policies. Unfortunately, a significant part of that minority is working with infringing or illegal content, which both prevents ad networks from working with you and attracts attention from law enforcement.

prmoustache 1 hour ago|||
That would put users at risk of being sued/punished for copyright infrigement.
szolonh 1 hour ago|||
there exist distributed alternatives like joinpeertube.org but they never really take off. Consumers like centralization, look at twitter.
Aachen 1 hour ago||
I tried using Peertube but finding an instance whose content policy fits what you're meaning to upload and responds to sign-up requests isn't trivial. It's basically perpetual storage they're offering for free so I get it, maybe the real surprise is that youtube makes so much money off of us that they can afford this

Found one in the end when I didn't have a choice anymore and put renewed effort into it (Google's algorithm won't let me into my account anymore, saying they don't have enough information to verify it's me (username, password, recovery email.. not enough apparently, but there is nothing else), so I'm a Peertube exclusive now) but iirc I can't use it for everything, like if I wanted to upload something in Dutch I'd have to find a new server that allows my language

KolmogorovComp 1 hour ago|||
yes, will you also be providing the caching server? Because that's the main blocker I think, nobody has the resources to cache them.
transitivebs 57 minutes ago|||
this is exactly why i worked on webtorrent ~13 years ago https://github.com/webtorrent/webtorrent
RockRobotRock 7 minutes ago|||
I honestly don't see how those two things are related.
MisterMunchkin 1 hour ago||
The problem with P2P video is that it's expensive to host and most of the people using it are going to use it for child abuse. It makes it not realistic.
kitchi 1 hour ago||
> most of the people using it are going to use it for child abuse.

This is deeply unsubstantiated and does not help contribute to a constructive debate. Please consider thinking more carefully.

api 1 hour ago||
“Most” is hyperbolic but it’s a real problem in any system designed for peer to peer hosting or sharing.

If the system is truly distributed it means you might not be able to participate without hosting or transmitting CSAM.

It’s also been used as a deliberate attack, which is known as “pissing in the pool.” Flood the system with CSAM and copyright infringement.

choo-t 53 minutes ago||
Most P2P video system make you seed only the video you started watching, thus making the point about transmitting csam moot.
gchamonlive 5 hours ago||
Used through all of the apps and personally there's little incentive for me not to use Firefox/Fennec. The only issue is that background playing is flaky, not sure it only works on my Poco F7 and not my S23, or if it randomly starts pausing the video when leaving de browser or even if it's a browser or OS power saving settings. But when it works it works flawlessly.

In any case, there needs to be a huge problem to justify installing an android app. I prefer to keep them to a minimum and focus solely on the browser. Browsers are the only OS-vendor-safe option which I can use to bail entirely on Google's Android or iOS and go some place else.

TFNA 4 hours ago||
NewPipe has a one-click download button. If one follows channels with mainly-audio content that one may want to listen to later, possibly away from an internet connection, that is super-handy.

NewPipe also lets you export your subscriptions (which is just a bunch of links to RSS feeds), so you aren't shackled to Android/RSS.

wafflemaker 2 hours ago|||
It's even better with a podcast app that can have a directory read as a podcast. Have to click once more though to have the"podcasts"refreshed to get it in my playlist. Still cool for podcasts that are only on YouTube and Spotify.
gchamonlive 3 hours ago||||
Can I somehow import my current subscriptions from Google into newpipe? When I tried newpipe what put me off was that I already had a list on the browser. I also couldn't sync the list between multiple devices. Also is there anything on Linux I can use to sync to newpipe and resume videos on my laptop if I'm tired of watching on my phone? Of if I saw something interest and I wanted to continue on Linux in order to take notes and make proofs of concept.
TFNA 3 hours ago|||
NewPipe does have a Share function for any video and there is probably some way to customize it to get the integration with your Linux laptop that you want. I believe (though I haven't tried in a while) that if one is watching a video on NewPipe and then clicks Share and passes the video to a media-center device running Kodi, Kodi will even start playing the video from that same timestamp, so Share is pretty powerful. Not sure what is available for passing vids from a Linux computer to NewPipe on the phone, though.
gchamonlive 3 hours ago||
To add to the list, if you share the link over kdeconnect and select a linux device (mine is hyprland on archlinux) it'll open the link using the default $BROWSER. If there's a simple integration to sync subscriptions I think I'd give it another go. Fennec is good but as mentioned background playback stability would be really nice to have.
braiamp 2 hours ago|||
Yes https://newpipe.net/FAQ/tutorials/import-export-data/#import...
shellwizard 3 hours ago|||
Also newpipe let you create a playlist of videos and only play the audio track in the background or play a given video in the background
mawadev 3 hours ago|||
Solid take, these days most apps are just glorified browser wrappers and you don't miss out on anything. In fact, you could have a separate browser with all these saving modes disabled just for the youtube use case.
II2II 5 hours ago|||
One of the reasons why I use an app to view YouTube is to disable suggested videos and comments. Basically, I want to have a personalized list of the channels I view as worth watching and I want to discourage continued watching outside of those boundaries.
Groxx 4 hours ago|||
There are adblock filters and extensions for that fwiw.

YouTube does make some kind of changes significantly harder to build than simple scripting will handle though. I do definitely see some reasons for specialized apps, and video is a fairly prime example of where they're often more capable or more (power/time/whatever) efficient.

gchamonlive 5 hours ago|||
I don't have a problem with compulsive watching, so for me the subscriptions view is good enough. I think there are be extensions for Firefox to customize the layout the way need, but it falls in the pitfall of relying on YouTube code for it to work, so it's bound to be flaky or have a short lifespan.
II2II 4 hours ago||
For the most part, I've been using the apps for so long that compulsive viewing is not an issue on my end either. That said, I do have my days and I don't want to slide into that habit. By sticking to my curated list, I am limited to a couple of hours of videos a week. Quite often it turns out to be less since I've grown much more selective about what I will watch from that list.
gchamonlive 4 hours ago||
In a non-curated list, or one curated by the algorithm, what types of videos do you think has this potential to suck you back into this habit?
II2II 3 hours ago||
By far the easiest ones that would cause me to slide back into this habit come from channels I used to watch, then decided to stop watching. In a lot of cases, those channels produced videos I enjoyed. Yet I also found them hit-and-miss in terms of quality or the channel focussed upon long-form videos with too little content to justify the time watching them.

When I switched over to using an app, there was also a good chance that an algorithmically suggested video from an unfamiliar creator would capture my imagination. When I have looked at recommendations recently, I doubt that would be a problem today. Too much AI and human generated slop. Too many click-bait titles that barely give a hint on what the video is about, never mind why I should care about their take on it.

Then there are the days when I am both bored and exhausted. While I don't tend to watch much on those days, I have known myself to scroll through the recommendations to see if there is anything to occupy the time.

crtasm 4 hours ago|||
I use NewPipe so I can subscribe to channels and put channels/videos into playlists, without needing to make a youtube account.
gchamonlive 4 hours ago||
I use android so I'm already past that point sadly, but I'd be the first to dump my Google credentials as soon as that monopoly that's got a stranglehold on Android cracks
crtasm 3 hours ago||
I'm also on Android, running LineageOS without adding google services
gchamonlive 3 hours ago||
Indeed, but then I'd have to say goodbye to banking and thus NFC paying, which needs the banking app installed locally AFAIK to authorize the link. So yeah, it's doable but cripples the device to such a point that I'd only be able to use it at home. On the go access to banking is a must.

The block in degooglifying is usually region not lack of willingness. Some places are locked to Google by no fault of the consumer.

CarlJW 1 hour ago|||
Have you tried the Firefox extension "Video Background Play Fix"?

This has worked flawlessly for me on every phone I've used.

Latty 3 hours ago|||
Have you tried disabling the Page Visibility API? Web apps will sometimes use that to try and mess with background playing, IIRC.
gchamonlive 2 hours ago||
Wasn't aware of this API tbh, will take a look thanks!
thuruv 1 hour ago|||
agreeable argument. I am also running towards firefox, but keeping the firefox open, juggling between the tabs, especially the quirks YT poses on Firefox, these apps poses a usecase. Yes, download/subscribe/SB support etc. Currently using libretube mostly.
gchamonlive 1 hour ago||
I'm with you here, it's a degraded user experience running stuff on mobile browser, intentionally so I'd risk saying. Best of both worlds would be to have an android app but it's just a webserver I connect using the browser, you know, like we've always done in linux haha, this way we could have newpipe-like apps targeting the browser running locally.

but for some reason google knows better and there is no efficient way to run local containerized web services.

dataflow 2 hours ago||
> Used through all of the apps and personally there's little incentive for me not to use Firefox/Fennec.

Your comment made me try Firefox for the Nth time right now.

And the rendering is still bad like I remembered it. Download the image locally and open it in an image viewer so you actually view the pixels 1:1, then see if you can tell which one is Firefox (I can): https://imgur.com/a/FsXuoa3

I'm staying with Chrome.

aktenlage 1 hour ago|||
It always hurts me, when people basically say "I'm not giving up [something that has cornered the market] for the alternative, because [minor-grievance]", even though it is already clear that the monopoly is being exploited to make things worse for all customers.
dataflow 1 hour ago||
I want to use Firefox, this was my Nth failed attempt at doing so. I just cited the first problem I saw again, not the only one as you're assuming. Mozilla has had years - literally over a decade - to fix such issues.

But hey, if there's one thing that's definitely going to convince people to do things they don't like, it's to diminish their grievances and guilt-trip them.

bluebarbet 42 minutes ago||
This whole debate is such a chestnut. Of course, you will do as you please, it's your right. But these choices do reveal values and priorities. Speaking personally (and, I suppose you will say, sanctimoniously), I choose to use Firefox despite its flaws because I don't want the internet to be privatized. I know what I'm missing out on. It's less important.
chrisweekly 1 hour ago|||
Related tangent: Brave is pretty close to Chrome, sans Google.
dataflow 1 hour ago||
I mean, so is Edge. I can't say I feel more comfortable with them. Probably the most direct thing I can point to for Brave is that having cryptocurrency features in a browser doesn't give trustworthy vibes. And yes I realize there's a reason for it and there's a fairly high chance the vibes could be giving the wrong impression here, but when your entire digital life is at stake, that raises the bar for the risks you want to take. Whatever you think of Chrome or Google, the reality is that they're known quantities and I'm already using them, like most other people.
AlbertoLuna 2 hours ago||
After trying all the alternatives in the end I settled on self hosting https://github.com/Materialious/Materialious

All the YouTube alternative frontends are so privacy focused that they do not even offer video history in your account.

Having video history is a must for me as I might start watching a video in my computer and then continue on my phone.

Also as it is just a web (and includes support for SponsorBlock) it works everywhere, no need to patch apps or install extensions.

Lerc 2 minutes ago||
Is it a problem for you that YouTube's watch history is littered with videos you didn't watch, but got recorded as being watched because the mouse pointer moved over one of their suggestions for a moment.
Aachen 1 hour ago||
I have watch history in NewPipe just fine? And I find it very convenient to know what I've already watched. All local, Google doesn't need to store it for you / you can't lose access to it
jurf 58 minutes ago||
I think OP meant cross-device.
Tha_14 5 hours ago||
I have been happily using PipePipe for the past few months and have been very satisfied with it. The developer seems to spend the time and attention needed to make it work again whenever youtube likes to change things and I really appreciate that.
y-c-o-m-b 5 hours ago||
I think it's been about 6 months or more for me and I am also very satisfied with it. I left NewPipe because I'd often have to wait days to weeks for simple fixes to get implemented. PipePipe is patched very often.
simur 2 hours ago|||
I think part of the reason why NewPipe is so slow is that they are in the middle of a rewrite/redesign. All the focus is there and the current app is in the maintainance mode.
riedel 1 hour ago|||
This is the reason I switched probably mor than a year or two ago. YouTube remains a cat and mouse game. Strange things with those forks is that they always add some more streaming sources Mike BkliBili but keep the old stuft. Actually soundcloud only works very limited lately.
sureglymop 5 hours ago|||
Same. My only issue (with NewPipe also) is that at ~50 subscribed channels, Google rate limits me when I refresh. I wish there was better logic to get new content or a way to space it out over an amount of time.
2Gkashmiri 4 hours ago||
I am at 340+ subs and rate limits happen very rarely.

I have had this issue few times on a specific wifi router (different router on same line doesn't) so don't know exactly.

hadrien01 5 hours ago||
Same. It's also less buggy, and they've fixed long-standing navigation gripes I had with NewPipe. I did disable the SponsorBlock integration because I find it quite annoying to go back on a skipped sequence.
herunan 31 minutes ago||
token controverial comment that all good stuff needs to be sustained with money somehow. always good to find alternatives if/when/for can't afford/appreciate. but there has to be sustenance. nothing against a cheeky freeride, of course. but when it becomes the main source something has to give.
BaardFigur 4 minutes ago||
Chinese developer. I'd love to see Tubular be revived
Cider9986 3 hours ago||
If you want music I've found Metrolist to be the nicest frontend.

https://github.com/MetrolistGroup/Metrolist/releases

creatonez 39 minutes ago||
Just a heads up, this includes support for Return YouTube Dislike, which tells a third party service what videos you click on and has no measures to ensure anonymity like SponsorBlock does. The option for disabling it doesn't seem to do anything.
TechSquidTV 1 hour ago||
Fundamentally against stealing from creators.
porjo 34 minutes ago||
I respect your stance. A couple counter points from personal experience: even if I can't skip the ads, I'm not paying attention - I immediately mute/tune out. And the ads are typically so obnoxious that the reflex to ignore/avoid is only magnified. Is that so different from having a mechanism to auto skip/mute?
kqgnkqgn 24 minutes ago|||
Posting YouTube videos can just be a hobby - it was in the beginning, and that was fine. It's OK if posting a video isn't a profitable career path. Enthusiasts > "creators".

And in-video ads like these are even less defensible given that they still show up when people are paying YouTube (and creators by extension) to not display ads.

aucisson_masque 9 minutes ago|||
You’re free to put ads and I’m free to not watch them. What the issue ?
stavros 7 minutes ago||
Out of the options "creators released content only behind paywalls", "users steal from creators", and "creators incentivised platforms to lobby to remove user freedom so users can't steal from creators", what actually happened was, by far, my least preferable option.
tancop 5 hours ago|
I just use ReVanced. I like shorts and recommendations and don't really care about privacy when most of my feed is football highlights, K&P sketches, gaming channels and random bullshit comedy videos. But having a full open source alternative is still important.
s0ss 4 hours ago||
Why don’t you care about privacy specifically in this context?
exe34 4 hours ago|||
He thinks privacy is for dodgy things.
bobsmooth 4 hours ago|||
Because the algo, despite everyone's objections, is pretty good at recommending videos.
eventualcomp 2 hours ago|||
I would like to define my own thresholds for exploration/exploitation so that I can shape the person I want to be, thanks.
bobsmooth 1 hour ago||
Then dont use Vanced
pjc50 3 hours ago||||
Yes , with the caveat that you need to be aware of it, guide it, and watch out for its tendency to recommend weird propaganda if you touch certain non political subjects.
s0ss 3 hours ago|||
Personally, I struggle to find an upside in the galaxy of downsides. I don’t want to trade my agency for convenience, regardless of the topic or venue.
bobsmooth 1 hour ago||
What exactly are the downsides?
Toynbeeidea 3 hours ago|||
Oh? I recently stopped using revanced when updates stopped and my older revanced stopped working correctly. Is it back?
bdcp 4 minutes ago|||
you gotta repatch every 4~6 months, its always breaking due to yt changes
almostroot 49 minutes ago||||
https://github.com/revanced Download the latest revanced manager and it works fine. I've had no issues but the account I use is on a friend's family YouTube Premium plan so I don't need to rely on the ad blocker.
kamiheku 2 hours ago|||
Morphe [1] seems to be the one carrying the torch.

[1] https://github.com/MorpheApp/

pbmonster 1 hour ago||
Does it auto-update now? I like its UI better than PipePipe, but I got so sick of hand-updating Vanced (including hand-downloading the correct apk and waiting several minutes for the patches to run against it) every time Google breaks Youtube again. There was a period of Warfare last year where Google would make breaking changes more than once a week...

PipePipe is so nice with the fast auto-updates. If I ever even catch it breaking, I just have to use Firefox for a few hours and then F-Droid ships the fix and PipePipe works again.

looperhacks 1 hour ago||
It doesn't, sadly. The new kid on the block, Morphe (there was some classic open source drama) directly gives you the link to the correct apkmirror page, don't know if revanced also did this. But it makes things easier. Tbh, I only update every few months, it's bearable
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