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Posted by ChrisArchitect 8 hours ago

Waymo in Toronto(waymo.com)
219 points | 326 commentspage 3
hilde574 7 hours ago|
[dead]
jbmchuck 7 hours ago||
Just in time for the bike lane removals /s
techfordemocrac 7 hours ago||
[dead]
muslimpeacepriz 7 hours ago||
[flagged]
catlikesshrimp 7 hours ago|
Despite campaign promises, Canada is not part of the US
cmrdporcupine 7 hours ago||
Some of you downvoted-to-dead this from another poster ("Hi, I'm Nelson" from Technologists for Democracy); new user who had low karma, so it's dead in the thread.

I frankly think it's a legit POV, and I'm also local to this, so I'm going to use my own much higher karma to post it again:

https://techfordemocracy.ca/2026/04/29/say-no-to-waymo/

I think there are legitimate concerns in promoting American BigTech as provider of infrastructure/services in Toronto. Concerns about data collection, about technological autonomy, and local employment.

bitpush 5 hours ago|
I fail to see any unique argument in this. That is to say you can replace Ontario with San Jose and it'll all work.

> Digital sovereignty and privacy is at stake.

This is the most strongest argument, and luckily that's the first one. Many ways to solve this so not really a big problem.

> Ontarians’ jobs risk being outsourced

What jobs are being displaced by driverless cars? The best argument here is uber drivers are going to be affected. Who would you rather drive you at 3am if you're a drunk woman? An uber driver or Waymo?

> Public transit could lose riders

What is the goal here? The goal is to move people efficiently and decrease the reliance on human driving, which can cause deaths. Public transportation is vital but again, there are times when subway / buses wont work.

Also, if public transit is a major concern, shouldnt we be asking Uber (see point #2) to go away?

The last two points are super generic, it isnt even worth discussion.

Not convinced with the approach here.

canadiantim 8 hours ago||
I doubt they’ll cut it in Toronto traffic. What’ll they do when going west by DVP and lakeshore, only a human can effectively navigate that space
dyauspitr 8 hours ago|
It’s doing Manhattan, it’ll be fine.
rafram 7 hours ago||
It's not. Waymo was using human-driven cars to collect data in NYC for a while, but their permit expired and they no longer operate at all in New York.
shevy-java 7 hours ago||
Wait ... isn't this Google? Aka a US company?

I understand the issue of technical power, mind you, but I don't really see how US companies expanding into Canada is a good idea as long as a hostile orange individual keeps on potty-mouthing Canadians.

papercrane 7 hours ago||
Google already has quite a large office in Toronto.
Rohansi 7 hours ago|||
Maybe we'll end up cancelling whatever contract Waymo got and give them a secret payout amount like we did for Starlink.
dennis_jeeves2 7 hours ago|||
>hostile orange individual

Orange guy may make news, but Canada has greater problems from within.

bubbluppugus 7 hours ago||
So your response to asocial, xenophobic politicians is give them what they want?

"I will show that America first President who wants to fracture global trade...by arguing for fracturing global trade."

That gen pops tune changed with the political climate just like big corp previously going on about left wing shit is stunning

Ya'll are just LARPing what you watch on TV and read online

calgoo 6 hours ago||
No, the rest of us will continue trading without the US. Its not giving in, its ignoring the billionaires that are buys favors and not buying from their companies.
bubbluppugus 6 hours ago||
You sure about that? My friends and colleagues outside the US are awful pissed that US gen pop let/lets this happen.

They’re encouraging their leaders to route around 300 million Muricans as they see no collective action in response to threats to global trade they rely on.

And argue ok if US institutions and zeitgeist are "fuck yall we're America" well again 300 million are really at the whim of 8 billion.

Not sure the typical Mr Rogers naive optimism "we're America!" is gonna get the US through after 10 years of this (Biden admin effort was binned just months after Trump 2.0 took off so it effectively didn't matter; Jimmy Carter 2.0). That's just copium, blind faith in what Adam Smith called "the invisible hand" he later came to realize was a mistake to believe existed

127-1298 7 hours ago||
Absolutely sick. Again they are using minimal job creations and people with diseases to push their job-killing, inhumane surveillance devices.
127-1298 7 hours ago||
Shouldn't Waymo be renamed into ASIC, "American Super Intelligence Car"?

Toronto is already on Lake America (approved by Google). Maybe bring out the traffic cones or get another trucker protest.

ptaffs 7 hours ago|
What does robotaxi offer apart from less taxi-driver jobs? They can't inherently shorten journeys or avoid surface disruption, we already have taxi services in most cities. This just removes a human job and that's the progress.
criddell 7 hours ago||
Do you know any women who have had drivers act inappropriately towards them? Or drivers who pretend the meter is broken and try to charge more?

There are lots of reasons somebody might prefer a driverless car and lots of reasons somebody might prefer a human driver. Why not have a choice?

wetwater 6 hours ago||
Do you know any minors that had the police called on them mid ride by a RoboTaxi company becuase the taxi AI though the minor had guns. Yeah Waymo did that.

For your Women's safety POV. just because now youre alone in the car doesn’t really mean you are alone. You are under constant remote surveillance.

Regarding the meter broke issue. So you'd rather have corporate price fixing. Because that’s what Waymo is doing. The fleet size is same but the costs are going up.

And when a giant tech company is a service provided and rule maker , you don't really have a choice left.

criddell 5 hours ago|||
So it sounds like you agree with me in that different people have different concerns and it's good that there are options out there.
ButlerianJihad 2 hours ago|||
> the taxi AI though[sic] the minor had guns

That is not what happened.

The Support Team checked in on the live internal video after being alerted, and the Support Team saw firearms, so they alerted law enforcement, who arrested the children, for possession of actual guns.

How is that wrong or bad?

KolmogorovComp 7 hours ago|||
What does a 1-driver taxi compared to a 2-drivers taxi offer apart from fewer taxi-driver jobs? They can't inherently shorten journeys or avoid surface disruption, we already have taxi services in most cities. This just removes a human job and that's the progress.

Now what about a 3-drivers taxi?

The answer is always the same, people hope to lower the driver cost, which I believe is significant for a 1-driver taxi.

ptaffs 7 hours ago||
Well, some long-haul coaches have two drivers to allow them to switch-out for safety but keep the passengers and bus moving. Of all the things to get excited about, I don't understand why reducing the labor costs for corporates is one. Improving transportation instead would benefit us all, for example with better road design and mixed/integrated transport systems.
triceratops 7 hours ago|||
30-35% of the cost of running a city bus is the driver.

Imagine what cities could do with 50% higher bus frequency or more bus routes.

tempest_ 7 hours ago|||
Buses / Trams are the best use of this tech since not only is a high percentage of the cost the driver but they also drive the same predictable routes and not all over the place.

There are issues though. If you remove the staff from the bus you will need to handle some particularly unruly passengers in a different way. Currently the driver just stops until that person leaves or gets police / special constables involved.

wetwater 6 hours ago||||
Where are you getting this number? Imagination is free but to execute the imagination is not. So yes, it depends on the imagination of the person who owns the tech AI company not your imagination.

And what is the cost of replacing the driver with the hardware/software and the servicing cost. and the operators in Philippines that are remotely working ?

triceratops 6 hours ago||
> Where are you getting this number?

Previous discussion on this topic on HN. I don't feel like searching for it now, you are welcome to.

I don't know what you're saying about imagination.

heyodai 6 hours ago||||
If you've ever seen bus drivers in NYC, it's genuinely impressive how they manage to weave a giant box through the chaos. I'm not sure that self-driving tech will be able to replace them anytime soon.

This would be interesting for my native Kansas City though. There's a severe shortage of buses and it's much simpler driving conditions. Could be a game changer.

triceratops 6 hours ago||
If you remove the cost of the driver, smaller buses become more viable.
wetwater 6 hours ago||
Cost of driver replaced with cost of what ? how do you sustain that cost and dose it cost more than the driver ? One liner sounds cool but please back it up with something.
triceratops 6 hours ago||
> how do you sustain that cost

What does that mean?

> dose it cost more than the driver ?

No. That's the whole reason the field of self-driving exists. It will become cheaper than the driver.

> One liner sounds cool but please back it up with something

I don't feel like looking for links right now. You can disagree with my opinion and move on.

ks2048 6 hours ago||||
But, Waymo removed the driver and it's not cheaper than Uber, correct?
triceratops 6 hours ago||
I thought that was because of the cost of the hardware. I could be wrong though.
iLoveOncall 7 hours ago||||
Ok except apparently Waymo is more expensive than human-driven alternatives.
triceratops 6 hours ago||
And you think that'll always be true?
SoftTalker 7 hours ago|||
Have more buses blocking traffic?
triceratops 6 hours ago||
"You aren't in traffic. You are traffic."

As a driver, you should want cheaper buses. More bus riders = fewer other cars on the road.

SoftTalker 6 hours ago||
Other cars don't stop in traffic for 30 seconds every other block to take on/discharge passengers.
triceratops 6 hours ago||
You can just go around a stopped bus (obviously not a school bus). And if the streets are so narrow that you can't, then you definitely won't like the traffic of all those bus riders driving their own cars.
Tiktaalik 7 hours ago|||
- frees up people to do more important things than drive you around.

- can play your own weird free jazz via Spotify.

- obeys traffic rules

bluefirebrand 6 hours ago|||
> frees up people to do more important things than drive you around

Like what?

They still need a paycheck. What do you think the outcome of a bunch of unemployed taxi drivers is going to be? What other low skill career is going to absorb them?

We're really rapidly approaching a "automate too many jobs for the remainder of the job market to absorb" situation imo and It's hard for me to imagine it going very well for anyone.

wetwater 6 hours ago|||
[flagged]
jagraff 6 hours ago|||
Safety. Waymos are safer for passengers and pedestrians than human-driven cars.
quaverquaver 7 hours ago|||
It obeys the rules of the road and kills many fewer people - 0 killed in 250M miles. Driving a machine is something people are not good enough at frankly.
Rebelgecko 7 hours ago|||
IMO it's a safer and more comfortable passenger experience
notemaker 7 hours ago|||
Road safety. Personal safety. A consistent experience.
pama 7 hours ago|||
> What does robotaxi offer apart from less taxi-driver jobs?

One more passenger seat (once the wheel is removed); the option for privacy (once the recordings are removed); increased safety (starting now, but even more so in the future); ability to build overnight charging stations in unpopulated areas; once fully adapted you can have reduction or removal of parking spaces, eliminate commercial daytime traffic, etc. Maybe it is the ever optimist in me… I think eliminating a job that led to increased cardiovascular problems and reduced lifespan of fulltime drivers while keeping the human rate of accidents, will be seen as an obvious improvement in human civilization in the future, similar to giving up horse carriages.

throwayay58373 6 hours ago|||
A more uniform experience across taxi rides.

I'm sure many people have had enjoyable rides with taxis. I've had many.

But I've also has rides where the drivers was obviously exhausted and driving recklessly, and I've had a few drives where the driver started going on about some insane political topics.

Some days I don't want the latter. Having that service would be a nice option.

jen20 7 hours ago|||
Of the robotaxis in Austin, I've only used Waymo, but have used it fairly extensively. So far I have noticed:

- Waymo vehicles don't argue about having the air conditioning on,

- They don't try and talk about local (or national) politics to you while driving,

- They don't play annoying games to try to make you cancel rides they don't want to take while collecting cancellation fees (see the /r/uberdrivers subreddit for quite how endemic this is),

- The selection of music (or not) is with the rider, not the driver,

- They smell better - an especially important point during summer when temperatures are regularly over 100 degrees. This is as much about the lack of gross air freshener trees as it is about an extra person in the car the whole day,

- The cars aren't falling apart. This has got noticeably worse for Uber and Lyft (which was always a little more flexible on the age and condition of cars) - it's not uncommon to see fault lights on human-driven ride share vehicles, or body panels duct-taped or twined in place.

There are three major disadvantages right now:

- Waymo is only available through the Uber app, and there is no preference to say you only want Waymo vehicles. This will be fixed in January 2028, which I assume is contractual rather than technical, since during the launch period the standalone app was used - but I wish they'd hurry up, or they'll likely lose my business to Zoox or similar,

- They don't use highways currently, leading to some fairly circuitous routes that take longer than they should, especially to downtown,

- They don't go to the airport. Ride sharing dynamic pricing to the airport means that for trips under a week it's often cheaper to park than to ride-share though (even from ~downtown). I have no doubt that the robotaxis will learn the tricks of late-stage capitalism once they have some market lock-in though.

wetwater 6 hours ago||
HackerNews is a bubble in itself. Most people here cannot relate to a person who drives a cab for a living and is having a real tangbile crisis seeing how these tech companies are eating up their livelihood. Switching jobs for a taxi driver is not the same as switching jobs or career as a software coolie.

No taxi driver union can combat the amount of money waymo is spending lobbying.

[1] https://sfstandard.com/2023/08/23/cruise-waymo-spent-million...

New York is still holding on but I dont know how long it can. https://thenextweb.com/news/waymo-new-york-city-political-ro...

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