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Posted by hn_acker 1 day ago

Canadians are running out of time to oppose Bill C-22(www.eff.org)
402 points | 213 comments
zaptheimpaler 12 hours ago|
The petition to withdraw and amend the bill was presented to the House of Commons today [1]. People whining about how there's nothing they can do basically don't engage in democracy and thats how you end up in a US situation..

[1] https://www.ourcommons.ca/petitions/en/Petition/Details?Peti...

kareemm 12 hours ago||
I emailed 9 senators and heard back from one. Emailed the other 8 today. Even when you engage, there's little positive feedback. The older I get, the more I believe this is a feature of the system and not a bug.
zaptheimpaler 3 hours ago|||
I feel most of us have been conditioned to prefer only the mildest and most inoffensive ways of protesting as valid and consider the rest impossible. In my view, governments today ignore protests because they don't actually threaten anything. A protest with teeth might be mass absenteeism from work, refusing to pay taxes, something that actually hurts.. although in this case it's probably a bit much, when the threat of real protest is completely gone you end up with authoritarian governments.
ornornor 1 hour ago|||
France does protests more effectively. The government is paying attention there and trying very hard to hide the fact that the emperor has no clothes.
raverbashing 21 minutes ago||
They are protesting against the same things that would make their situation better (like increasing the retirement age)

But they're too stupid to realize that

0c3ca83 1 hour ago|||
Or even just peacefully blocking the entrance to parliament and forcing them to arrest you to do their jobs.
grafmax 7 hours ago||||
The fact is this political system of ours is heavily balanced in favor of those with the endless budgets and resources to spend engaging in "democratic" avenues of influence.
h3xK33 6 hours ago||
[flagged]
kashunstva 2 hours ago|||
> Boomers were not raised by principles of modern science

I’m a Boomer with twelve years of post-secondary modern science education. My spouse, also a Boomer has spent her entire life in the academy. Your claim is false.

> They’re religious nutters due to memory of their neurological makeup

I’m an atheist Boomer. I haven’t a religious bone in my body. Your claim is false.

I’m sure there are other venues that will accept your ageist, angry and patently false generalizations as truth; but by and large this is not one of them.

parineum 4 hours ago||||
Just Boomers are like that?
great2bnaustin 2 hours ago|||
[flagged]
JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago||||
> emailed 9 senators and heard back from one

Good start. Calls are also excellent. Then get your neighbors to do the same.

For controversial stuff, you want tens to hundreds of outreach events recorded. It doesn’t take all that much for electeds to spell a festering primary threat.

8note 10 hours ago|||
electeds? primary threat? i think that might backfire in the canadian senate

i know i voted against the referendum question last week to consider moving to a US inspired elected senate system. i dont think we need that pageantry

JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago|||
> electeds? primary threat?

I'm familiar with American and Swiss elections. In both, the principal threat to an incumbent is from an own-party challenger to their seat.

For an incumbent, particularly one in a comfortable seat, an opposition candidate is usually not an issue. But someone from inside the camp is annoying and requires rhetorical contorting and lots of spending, spending that can then leave one vulnerable to an otherwise-benign opposition candidate. (Also, motivated activists are annoying in the best way.)

A smart elected–in these systems–will thus take a call to defuse anger before it develops into organized activism.

munk-a 9 hours ago||
Ah, to clarify, Canada's upper house is basically a house of lords equivalent that we expect to be full of puffed up nobodies that get paid a too generous stipend to sit there and keep their mouths shut. Canada has one elected congress body (the one we all talk about) and then this vestigial senate which is generally expected to sit there and silently approve everything that passes through it.

It does technically have power, but it's like the King's power to veto UK legislation - he can do it precisely once and then he'll be stripped of the power.

JumpCrisscross 8 hours ago||
> Canada has one elected congress body

Canadian MPs are electeds. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the Canadian Senate being referred to as an elected body—it’s irrelevant to the above.

munk-a 9 hours ago|||
Yeah, I think it'd be excellent if we could just disband our upper house and while it's worth pushing them to act on this bill I loathe the senate's continued existence and would rather be in a position where this emergency call happened prior to it passing the house.
buckle8017 9 hours ago|||
There are no primaries in Canada at all.

Parties select their representatives who run in the election.

The system basically guarantees that insiders cannot be removed.

seanw444 9 hours ago|||
That actually sounds crazy to me. At least for the House of Commons. I'm amenable to upper chambers of bicameral legislatures being indirectly elected. That's how the US Senate used to be before the constitution was amended.
gpm 7 hours ago|||
I think you're misreading. MPs are directly elected. Anyone can run to be an MP (You have to collect 50 to 100 signatures from supporters and fill out some paperwork). Whoever wins the most votes in a riding becomes MP.

It's the property of a candidate being affiliated with a party - an indirect part of the election - that is run by the parties rules that are generally less than entirely democratic in nature.

buckle8017 8 hours ago|||
The British system which Canada basically copied is entirely designed to prevent real democracy.
9rx 5 hours ago||
The only thing that takes the Westminster system away from enabling real democracy is political parties, and they hadn't been invented when the system was designed. It took around 400 years before someone finally found the hack to break it. The original designers would have never envisioned the possibility that it could be hacked like that.
cowlevel 8 hours ago|||
Do you have several parties or just two?
buckle8017 8 hours ago||
Liberals NDP Greens Conservative

Liberals NDP and Greens would never form a government with the Conservatives so the liberals are effectively always in power.

Which means insiders in the liberal party are in charge and voting is partly irrelevant unless you're voting for the conservatives, but they would need an actual straight majority.

dorfsmay 3 hours ago|||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Stephen_Harper
rfrey 2 hours ago||||
The Green party is not a force in Canadian politics,they have one seat and barring radical events will never have another.

Th Bloc has 21 seats, and has had as many as 54. They would certainly ally with the conservatives. (Not the modern maple maga variety, but old school PC).

BigGreenJorts 6 hours ago||||
Except with the minority, the NDP got a few of their platform issues through.
singpolyma3 7 hours ago|||
Except for my entire 20s the conservatives were in power, so...
neom 11 hours ago||||
Colin Deacon seems to care: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7519403...

Paula Simons has also been actively listening to Canadians on this subject. https://sencanada.ca/en/senators/simons-paula/

Meleagris 5 hours ago|||
Members of the Senate committee reviewing C-22:

Marty Deacon (Ontario) Committee chair 613-943-3429 Tony Ince (Nova Scotia) Deputy chair 343-991-5540 Andrew Cardozo (Ontario) Committee member 613-996-9545 Katherine Hay (Ontario) Committee member 343-991-5536 Rebecca Patterson (Ontario) Committee member 613-995-2185 Hassan Yussuff (Ontario) Committee member 613-944-1108 Kim Pate (Ontario) Committee member 613-995-9220 John M. McNair (New Brunswick) Committee member 613-995-5060 Victor Boudreau (New Brunswick) Committee member 613-947-4110 Judy A. White (Newfoundland and Labrador) Committee member 613-996-2433

EmbarrassedHelp 10 hours ago|||
Paula Simons is almost certainly against Bill C-22, so it probably won't be of any use to contact her about rejecting it. I would focus efforts on other Senators.
NoahZuniga 11 hours ago||||
You won't be able to convince representatives with facts and logic. So many people want their attention that they can't pay enough attention to your arguments to be convinced. Contacting them is about showing that you care about it.

If they receive 100 calls of people saying they're strongly against a bill and no for they might reconsider their position.

Also calling is a better signal of showing you care then emailing.

trollbridge 10 hours ago||
Why not both?
raverbashing 21 minutes ago||||
Honestly senators probably don't have the time to answer everybody directly even if their concerns have an impact on their decision
lstodd 12 hours ago|||
Haha. You don't email them, you cut off their funding and smear their public image. This is how you make them move, not with emails. It takes some work though.
pixl97 11 hours ago|||
Careful there, too much of this kind of thinking and the MPs are going to find child porn on your phone, you sick criminal thief trying to overthrow the government.
lstodd 8 hours ago||
This also. It's a race who's going to find CP where. Or whatever else.

That's politics 101. Read up Mark Twain's Running For Governor.

rightnutwingjob 10 hours ago|||
Where’s the cut-of-their-funding lever?

Dial #lever and say “cut off”.

zetanor 11 hours ago|||
I do not believe that a majority of humans can be made to meaningfully engage with democracy. If this is true and POSIWID, then mass democracy only ever nullifies any real extent of democracy. As I see it, the only real solution is to replace power. I don't know how to do that. Do you?
dxdm 4 hours ago|||
This sounds like an interesting argument, but it's damn hard to parse. I think you're saying that real democracy needs political (in the widest sense) engagement, which can't be got from the majority of people, so letting everyone participate without regard to such engagement gets in the way of real democracy, and therefore you suggest to "replace" (redistribute) power?

Anyway, this really needs an explanation of what your idea of "real democracy" is, and what "replace power" is supposed to mean.

Anyway, the answer to your question of "how" is likely: at your own peril. ;)

ekns 3 hours ago||||
LBO maybe. Optimal governance would fix all bad mechanisms e.g. incentive traps, shooting self in the foot stuff, obvious inefficiencies, etc. - so it would result in a better future with more growth and wealth.

The difference can be used to bargain with incumbents to compensate for their current position, while installing a new type of government in its place that is better. It's a pretty hard problem but I don't think it's impossible. I'm pursuing this kind of thing in Finland presently.

Nifty3929 11 hours ago||||
This is why it's so important to have guardrails that limit what the government can do. The US tried to do that, and has probably been the most successful at it - though there's still been a lot of scope creep outside their constitution already. And that's probably a one-way street.
margalabargala 6 hours ago||
Most of Europe is far more successful than the US at restricting what the government can do, it's just restricted differently.
JumpCrisscross 10 hours ago||||
> do not believe that a majority of humans can be made to meaningfully engage with democracy

They don’t need to. When the informed minority on an issue gets lazy, stupid or cynical, however, the system dies.

Epa095 1 hour ago||||
> I do not believe that a majority of humans can be made to meaningfully engage with democracy.

Why not? Is it just that you have not experienced it, or is there a more principled argument?

My personal experience is that democracy feels to work much better in smaller (sub 10 million people) than larger, but it could also just be correlation not causation.

aetherspawn 10 hours ago|||
Voting for every little thing is compulsory in Australia and it’s honestly really annoying.
EmbarrassedHelp 10 hours ago|||
It also hasn't stopped Australia's descent into tech authoritarianism either.
MentalM 8 hours ago||
By what logic it is supposed to stop descent into authoritarianism? Сompulsory voting is an instrument to build authoritarianism, not to prevent it.
Supermancho 7 hours ago|||
> Compulsory voting is an instrument to build authoritarianism, not to prevent it.

On what basis does someone make this claim? Authoritarianism is a broad stroke. Most of the time, they eliminate voting, not make it compulsory.

Classically, an authoritarian power only care about voting to initially take hold of power. Every attempt to coerce voting (one way or the other) after that is performative, not instrumental.

aetherspawn 8 hours ago|||
I think because it stops only stupid people from voting for stupid leaders. It forces smart people to participate.
nik282000 6 hours ago||
I have noticed that the list of potential leaders is made up of a disproportionate number of stupid, ignorante or corrupt people.
sumedh 3 hours ago|||
> Voting for every little thing is compulsory in Australia

Like what?

tensor 12 hours ago|||
Indeed. I've also sent several emails to my MP. Sadly I've received no response. :-/
brailsafe 12 hours ago|||
Hmm that's odd, it was presented by my MP but wasn't aware of a chance to sign it
loufe 12 hours ago|||
I'm getting an error loading the page.
dolorian 5 hours ago||
I'm not saying you shouldn't sign petitions, but no law has ever been changed or stopped because of a petition. Look at the most popular petitions to amend laws. They ignored all of them, from firearms to electoral reform. Petitions give the government a good excuse to do something they want to do anyway, but won't change their mind about something they're set on.

The only thing that will change their minds is taking their seat, but without electoral reform you can be quite certain that only those loyal to Liberal, NDP and CPC will get elected. And PQ, but they're just Quebec NDP.

The general public of Canada is more concerned with Trump than what any Canadian politician is up to, so good luck.

EmbarrassedHelp 14 hours ago||
If the bill isn't dramatically changed or killed, all the major messaging services along with tons of other services will end up blocking Canada.
cute_boi 13 hours ago||
Or some will bend their knees and things will continue as normal.
tensor 12 hours ago||
Important services have already said they won't. It will be a disaster.
munk-a 12 hours ago||
They will say that regardless of their intentions - that doesn't mean we should ignore that possibility but that isn't a great indicator.
tensor 11 hours ago||
Apple in fact did withdraw their security features in Britain over a similar law. It's not simply crying wolf, these companies will withdraw.
sandworm101 13 hours ago||
There are lots of laws in Canada that are not enforced. Ap owners/controllers will wait to see how the government wants to handle this. If the government starts making demands then they will pull out, but I doubt the bill itself will trigger anything immediate.
mitthrowaway2 9 hours ago|||
Signal, NordVPN, Psiphon VPN, Tailscale, Windscribe, and DuckDuckGo have already confirmed that they will stop offering their services in Canada, and not route any of their European services through Canadian proiders.
donmcronald 12 hours ago||||
Hopefully it doesn’t get CRA (tax) enforcement where the little guy is relentlessly pursued while the rich are too much trouble to go after.
EmbarrassedHelp 10 hours ago|||
Canadian law enforcement have publicly stated that they intend to target encrypted messaging apps as soon as possible if the legislation become law.
pkphilip 4 hours ago||
We have a version of this law in India which is even worse and has been used extensively by the govt to crack down on dissent and to do wholesale censoring of content that the establishment doesn't like.

All of this is done with ZERO due process - even the minimal due process that has been built into these draconian laws.

matteoraso 14 hours ago||
It's very rare for the senate to kill a bill. I would say that we alreadt ran out of time.
wmchen 13 hours ago|
You're not wrong, the unelected senate generally chooses to defer to the elected lower chamber and only truly contentious legislation have been "killed" (as in dropped dead) at the Senate (think abortion and climate change).

Generally the Canadian Senate will propose amendments to the bill after its study (around a quarter of the time if I recall, not always), but the lower chamber has no obligation to agree, so it has some sway in that consultative sense. And the Senate has been more active in proposing amendments to legislation after independent senators became a thing.

At this point, I think the soft landing that privacy advocates can hope for are amendments that curtail the worst aspects of this legislation.

geephroh 9 hours ago||
Dear Canada,

Please cease this kind of behavior immediately. We're supposed to be the only dumbshits around here.

Yours truly,

'Merica

cowlevel 8 hours ago||
The truth is this can happen in any country, but the rich people who are causing it go after the most lucrative governments first.
metalman 9 hours ago|||
Dear Merica We decided to get it over with and HELP pull the roof down on our heads, the simple fact is that there is a direct linear relationship between how advanced our technology gets and how poor our overall experience of it becomes.

Caniba

cmehdy 7 hours ago||
Most of the world has become the dumbshits emulating Trumpism. Source: am French citizen..
SV_BubbleTime 6 hours ago||
Is your president emulating Trump? Is he one of the smartshits?
petcat 14 hours ago||
> also expand the sharing of Canadians’ personal data with foreign law enforcement, including the United States. Canada has been negotiating a cross-border data-sharing agreement with the U.S. that would allow American police to get information about Canadian internet users without any Canadian court oversight.

This is actually even more amazing to me that with all the talk of data sovereignty, the EU and Canada are still negotiating reciprocal Cloud Act treaties that will give the US government warrantless access to basically all digital services and communications. The UK and Australia have already codified these agreements with the US.

Trump's loud mouth brought these issues to the forefront, but really it seems like everyone is just waiting for it to blow over when he's gone in 2 years and then it's back to usual.

sellmesoap 14 hours ago||
I wonder why the Canadian government would share citizens data with the u.s. while all this 51st state talk and terrif stuff is going on, does Canada get access to Americans data in return?
petcat 14 hours ago|||
> does Canada get access to Americans data in return?

It probably is reciprocal, but in reality Canadian companies sell very little (if any) digital services to Americans. There isn't much they can even access. It's why the arrangement is so lopsided.

sellmesoap 13 hours ago|||
I think reciprocity would be in violation of the 4th amendment, and why don't Canadians have protection in the same way!
petcat 13 hours ago||
> why don't Canadians have protection in the same way

Well, they might have their own Fourth Amendment if they chose to fight against the British instead of with them during the American revolution!

History aside, now they have what they have.

sellmesoap 13 hours ago|||
We have a Canadian Constitution and the Charter of rights and freedoms, section 8 covers search and privacy, it even looks like a warrant is needed for messages just laying around a server https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2013/2013scc16/2013scc1... but this bill aims to put a harpoon through our charter rights!
EmbarrassedHelp 9 hours ago||
Canada is relatively unique among the common wealth countries as its founders were smart enough to remove parliamentary supremacy and have real judicial review.

I just wish that they would have also included a constitutional review council that reviews legislation before it comes law like France did (Constitutional Council), because a massive amount of damage can be done while waiting for the Canadian Supreme Court to rule on something.

vkou 12 hours ago|||
You should probably educate yourself about the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which has so far held up far better than the Amendments. Its language is far more specific and precise, and the document itself provides justification and context for its requirements... Unlike the amendments, which have largely been re-interpreted and gutted by partisan judges into absurdity.

Do the 13th, or the 14th, or the 4th amendment mean anything these days?

petcat 12 hours ago||
We'll need to see some examples of this. Especially given the topic at hand.
vkou 11 hours ago||
Examples of what? An insurrectionist assuming the office of president? SCOTUS approving gerrymandering aimed at suppressing minority votes? Armed, masked thugs with a license to kill asking for your papers when you walk the street? Trump running for a third term in office? Immigrants arrested, held without trial, and deported without due process or access to a lawyer?

We have lots of examples of that. Are there lots of examples in Canada of basic charter rights being violated in such a manner? Or do you dispute that the text of the charter is unclear?

If it's the latter, you're free to read it for yourself. Is there a lot in https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-12.html#h-44 that you find unclear?

AlexandrB 10 hours ago||
> Are there lots of examples in Canada of basic charter rights being violated in such a manner?

Plenty, it's just usually against unpopular targets. The most notable recent one being the trucker protest[1]. And what were the consequences for those in charge for this charter violation? I believe the answer is "nothing".

So what we have in Canada is a charter that theoretically protects citizens, but in practice can be violated by the government with impunity.

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-federal-cou...

vkou 10 hours ago||
I don't understand a bit of your complaint. As you yourself described, the system worked exactly as intended. The government does something illegal, the courts mull over it, and decide that it was, in fact, illegal. The government's currently not doing it.

Surely you can see a difference between an one-off that after the fact was found to be illegal, and hasn't been repeated, versus a pattern of the courts making batshit insane rulings?

Since you think that the truckers had to right to do what they did... If the courts ruled against them, would you have taken that as evidence for the quality of the charter, and the legal system that stands behind it? Or is this a tails I win, heads you lose situation?

No piece of paper can ever prevent a government from doing something illegal, or from passing an illegal law. The courts are only ever an after-the-fact remedy.

In the US, meanwhile, that remedy doesn't even work.

dolorian 4 hours ago|||
If what the government did was illegal, why were the people responsible not convicted and punished? The truckers who did illegal things got time for it. Even the guy who hacked/leaked the donor list got his conviction.

The charter is meaningless weasel words and is used just as often to curtail the rights of Canadians as it is to protect them.

The situation is exactly "tails I win, heads you lose" but in favour of whoever has the majority of MPs. They can take illegal action to thwart political opponents and face no consequences. Just as how police officers should be punished when they break the law (but often aren't), those who hold political office should be punished when they step outside their bounds.

vkou 1 hour ago||
> If what the government did was illegal, why were the people responsible not convicted and punished?

So, just to clarify, do you believe the executive responsible should go to prison as soon as one of their decisions is found to be illegal?

Or is there a higher bar that needs to be crossed? Where, roughly, would you put this bar?

AlexandrB 4 hours ago|||
> If the courts ruled against them, would you have taken that as evidence for the quality of the charter, and the legal system that stands behind it? Or is this a tails I win, heads you lose situation?

That's a fair point. Though the truckers are just an example.

I just don't think the charter offers guarantees anywhere as strong as the US constitution. For example, Canada's hate speech laws have taken a big chunk out of both the right to free speech and now the freedom of religion[1] set out in the charter.

[1] https://www.cccb.ca/media-release/proposed-restrictions-on-r...

p_l 12 hours ago||||
FATCA shows how promised reciprocity works (spoiler: it does not)
sandworm101 14 hours ago|||
>> everyone is just waiting for it to blow over when he's gone in 2 years and then it's back to usual.

Trump is the symptom, not the disease. It will not go back to normal. US politics has changed. The US people have changed. There won't be a Trump 2.0 but there will be other equally horrible leaders. Maybe not the next president, but likely the one after that. Canada must adapt to the new realty rather than deny and wait.

bvan 14 hours ago|||
Exactly. If it’s happened once, it will happen again.
torton 4 hours ago||
Correction: it has already happened twice.
lenerdenator 13 hours ago|||
Canadians acting like the consequences will never be the same because of one man, when you can walk over the French-German border today with a passport instead of a rifle.
munk-a 12 hours ago|||
Yeah, I'm pretty certain the Americans don't want the solution the Germans got to correct that problem.
lenerdenator 9 hours ago||
Yeah, it’s nowhere near as bad as things were in 1940, so I don’t think that it’s even the same problem.
watwut 10 hours ago|||
It took world war splitting country ... and AfD won loval elections.
Vaushite 14 hours ago||
[dead]
glitchc 11 hours ago||
The public would rather be safe than be free. We see that time and time again with how people are tough on crime, how they want government to step in if they are ever defrauded or stolen from. Politicians are simply mirroring the people's wishes.
zingplex 11 hours ago||
You say that, but mass surveillance was never on any ballot I recall seeing. All these laws always seem to get quietly pushed without consulting anybody other than the security services.
EmbarrassedHelp 10 hours ago|||
I don't think that's true. Even the privacy hating general public of the UK is against mass surveillance of private messaging.

https://www.theregister.com/security/2026/08/30/turns-out-br...

ipaddr 11 hours ago||
Crime limits regular citizens free. Scared to go out at night, open their door or go to certain parts of town. Safety allows freedom.
joshdavham 14 hours ago||
Be the change you want to see in the world! If you disagree with this bill don’t sit idle!
betaby 14 hours ago||
I too receive auto-replies from my MP.
kennywinker 14 hours ago||
I have an MP i can reliably count on to vote against bullshit like this, which means i have nobody who is accountable to me to write emails to.
betaby 14 hours ago||
Liberal MPs are going to vote as party says without exceptions. Aslos this https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/liberal-star-candidate-...
kennywinker 12 hours ago||
I wouldn't except a liberal MP to vote against this, it's their own plan. I wouldn't expect a conservative MP to vote against this, they believe in neoliberalism and entrenching gov and corporate power the same way the liberals do (see bill C-39, supported by both the liberals and conservatives).

Luckily we don't have a two party system in canada.

ipaddr 11 hours ago||
If not living in Quebec does any other party even hold party status?
kennywinker 4 hours ago|||
Official party status impacts a party’s ability to fight something like this through procedural means - but it doesn’t impact my MP’s ability to vote against it.

And i’m quite sure we’ll be seeing a green party or ndp with official party status again - two parties just isn’t as entrenched systemically as it is in the states.

betaby 9 hours ago|||
Green? NDP?
ipaddr 7 hours ago||
They don't have enough seats.
LeBit 12 hours ago|||
I am Canadian.

I think this bill is absolutely horrible.

What do you want me to do?

EmbarrassedHelp 9 hours ago|||
Raise awareness about the legislation and what it means for the average person (bans on iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal, VPNs, etc...) You need to also start emailing and calling members of the Senate, telling them to reject the bill.
ipaddr 11 hours ago|||
Drive to Ottawa and take over the downtown core.
Grum9 6 hours ago||
[dead]
cute_boi 13 hours ago|||
This is a coordination problem, so people can't do anything.
deadbabe 8 hours ago|||
It’s over. If it got this far, they wanted this.
slopinthebag 14 hours ago||
there is literally nothing people can do. the party in charge has a majority government and a media biased enough to sell this bill as a positive thing.

the only thing that could make a difference is if apple, whatsapp, and instagram all blocked canadians from using those services. the liberal party and the media would still find a way to blame trump for it, and the pm's popularity would increase.

EmbarrassedHelp 9 hours ago|||
> the only thing that could make a difference is if apple, whatsapp

That is literally what is going to happen if this legislation is allowed to pass. WhatsApp will block Canada, and Apple will remove any impacted service from Canada, like iMessage.

cowlevel 8 hours ago||
If that's true, wouldn't it be a good thing? It would be repealed.

But I don't think that's true. They will comply. They always comply.

EmbarrassedHelp 8 hours ago||
> If that's true, wouldn't it be a good thing? It would be repealed.

The Liberals will not be able to quickly reverse the legislation when that happens, and they may even be stupid/evil enough to double down on it. It can also take a year or more for the Supreme Court to strike down the legislation.

> But I don't think that's true. They will comply. They always comply.

It is true. Apple for example removes impacted services when a country targets it, like ADP in the UK. So iMessage will no longer work for Canadians.

WhatsApp will not compromise their global security and value of their brand for a tiny market like Canada.

cowlevel 7 hours ago||
The law in the UK that makes ADP illegal is basically the same as the Canadian one: it says all messaging and cloud storage (for consumers) has to be backdoored. Apple responded by disabling the non-backdoored version, which is ADP. They'll do the same in Canada, and WhatsApp was always backdoored so doesn't need to change.
shovas 13 hours ago|||
Remember that media bias comes from being state funded media. Of course they're going to massage the narrative towards the party giving them funding.
wk_end 12 hours ago|||
Canada has a free press, and many of its largest media outlets (the Sun, the National Post, the Globe, etc.) are strongly right-leaning and had no problems tarring Trudeau's Liberals night and day when he was in power. This is a problem you've invented, not the actual issue here.
Grum9 6 hours ago||
[dead]
cmrdporcupine 12 hours ago||||
what are you even on about, this is complete nonsense

nevermind half the population doesn't even pay attention to traditional "the media" these days

the bulk of "the media" in Canada is US owned, not "state funded" (which is only the CBC) and I haven't gotten any particular pro-vibes around this bill from them

tredre3 11 hours ago||
I've never gotten such vibes either (that being said the alignment of the CBC isn't exactly neutral either, their french counterpart seems more neutral).

But I have spent/wasted enough time online to know that Conservatives do truly believe that the CBC is very biased against them and thus should be defunded (or, alternatively, they often suggest giving the same amount of money to Rebel News).

ToucanLoucan 12 hours ago||||
Is the worldwide liberal conspiracy in the room with us right now? Because all I see all over the place are various reactionary movements gaining power, ruining everything, and continuing to blame liberals for the failings of their quarter-brained policies.
slopinthebag 10 hours ago||
there is no worldwide liberal conspiracy, i'm talking about the Liberal party of Canada

https://liberal.ca

munk-a 12 hours ago|||
Canada has problems - a state media that barks the party line isn't one of them. One political party would love you to believe that and it's aligned with the party south of the border that's trying to destroy media credibility across the board, but that's a political effort because transparency is an impediment to their agenda.

This isn't to say there aren't biases in media - there always is, everyone is biased in their own way - but the presence of that bias can be understood and having a robust pipeline for news is more important that trying to futilely eliminate all bias.

ipaddr 11 hours ago|||
A group of newspapers / media outlets friendly to the government gets $35,000 per employee.
EmbarrassedHelp 10 hours ago||||
Just recently there was a large number of anti-encryption and anti-private messaging news reports/articles in Canada. They all came from a single shitty article from The Canadian Press News that was written by Nono Shen.

* https://www.thecanadianpressnews.ca/national/tumbler-ridge-c...

Major Canadian news outlets like CTV News were blindly following that article, and saying "something has to be done" about encrypted messaging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLHkcOmcZOA

CTV news anchor Carolyn Jarvis was continuously pushing for AI-powered mass surveillance of all private messages in Canada throughout the news segment. And CTV News also falsely labeled Liz Repking as a "cybersecurity expert" and let her promote her anti-privacy views: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/2026/10/07/they-have-a-shared-r...

Other articles on the subject had various anti-privacy/anti-encryption dog whistles like "going dark" included in them.

BigGreenJorts 6 hours ago|||
CTV is owned by Bell Media.
dolorian 4 hours ago||
Bell is highly integrated with the government to the point of being defacto state funded. CTV does defend the interests of Bell, which includes continuing to get nice government contracts and free money to build out their infrastructure. What would be the value of being a dissenting voice? Bringing CRTC scrutiny?
cmrdporcupine 9 hours ago|||
All of this can be true without stupidly calling it "state sponsored."

The US mainstream media is equally stupid -- "liberal" or "conservative" -- CNN or Fox both make me want to gouge my eyes out.

Those of us on the (real) left have been pointing out the problem with the broadcast media for decades. Concentration of ownership and private interests are the problem, and frankly the CBC is the least worst of the bunch here in the country.

Canada is currently under a mass nationalist fervour under which the Carney gov't is getting away with a lot. The thing is the stuff he is getting away with... is exactly the stuff the Conservatives also wanted to do anyways. So people on the right frothing at the mouth about the liberals just baffles me. He is literally implementing the full CPC platform from the last election.

canadiantim 8 hours ago||||
It's true the liberal party is aligned with the democratic party and otherwise joined at the hip, but I wouldn't say the democrats are trying to destroy media credibility across the board, the media has already done that themselves.
slopinthebag 10 hours ago|||
there is bias though. even prominent journalists agree, and cbc (the state-owned media) is rated as left-leaning.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-two-prom...

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/cbc-news-media-bias

BigGreenJorts 5 hours ago|||
Being left/right leaning is not the same as towing the party line.
xbar 2 hours ago||
Don't blow it, Canada. You think Rogers is bad now....
loufe 14 hours ago|
I'm not sure what more to do then to annoy my friends and family and speak with my MP (done), who had already voted against it. Canada's political system seems healthy compared to the USA, but it doesn't feel healthy objectively.
Throwthrowbob 7 hours ago||
Thank you for speaking with your MP!

Call/contact senators is my next step, because the Senators are the next-to-last step for this bill.

refurb 4 hours ago|||
People keep thinking “healthy” politics is a lack of dissent. I hear this all the time from people.

When I lived in Singapore I heard how lucky they were to live in a country where there wasn’t much disagreement (the truth is it had been squeezed out of the population)

slopinthebag 14 hours ago||
it's not healthy, even compared to the states. it's just not crazy like the states.
shovas 13 hours ago|||
US politics might be "crazy" but definitely healthier than the managed decline we're seeing in Canada.
munk-a 12 hours ago||
As a Canadian-America - nope, Canada is far better off than the US. I don't know if the US has a route out of the hole it's digging at this point.
nxm 10 hours ago|||
As someone who’s met countless Canadians who are thankful and grateful to be in the US and not in a perpetual decline that’s been the case in Canada for year now, I beg to differ.
munk-a 10 hours ago||
Do you think that perhaps a sample of Canadians that emigrated to the US might not be representative of all Canadians?

Also, if you're in a tech sphere then there's even a notable bias of folks in SF that are happy to have left whatever other part of the US they used to reside in.

AlexandrB 10 hours ago|||
Politically or economically? Because economically Canada is headed to the bottom of the G20.

https://www.bcbc.com/insight/oecd-predicts-canada-will-be-th...

cmrdporcupine 10 hours ago|||
It has the same problem that the US has, which is it is stuck in a two party duopoly, with both major parties sharing fundamentally the same political economic outlook. Just with different takes on culture wars stuff.

The only significant opposition to this bill has been coming from the NDP, which was decimated to a small number of seats by people piling into the Liberals because of nationalism and by its previous pathetic fealty to the Liberals in the last two parliaments.

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