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Posted by hn_acker 1 day ago

Canadians are running out of time to oppose Bill C-22(www.eff.org)
402 points | 213 commentspage 2
ActionHank 14 hours ago|
So let's assume it goes forward, what are my options to maintain privacy?
privacyishuman 12 hours ago||
GrapheneOS for phone

Signal for messaging

Ente Photos

NotesNook for notes

A good VPN: https://www.privacyguides.org/en/vpn/

If you need other replacements lmk.

beeslol 10 hours ago||
Unfortunately Signal has threatened to leave the Canadian market should this bill go through, as have NordVPN, Windscribe, DuckDuckGo's VPN, Psiphon VPN, and Proton VPN. I imagine more may follow suit.
privacyishuman 7 hours ago||
That's the biggest problem with iOS because Apple can be ordered to block them from the App Store and it would be instantly kill these privacy services market share.
LeBit 13 hours ago|||
Will TOR be blocked?
EmbarrassedHelp 12 hours ago||
One of the main lobbyists behind Bill C-22, The Canadian Centre for Child Protection (C3P) has been trying to target Tor's funding for years now. So unfortunately it would be unsurprising to see them convince the Liberals to try and target Tor.
john_strinlai 14 hours ago|||
any serious answer to that question would need more context, and will have to wait until after the bill passes to see how companies/services react.
tamimio 14 hours ago|||
Don’t use Canadian or 14 eyes products. Keep your cell on an airplane mode most or all times. Use cash as much as possible. That however is a technical response to a political one, which usually won’t last long or it will be ineffective or even illegal, a proper political response is the right way.
dolorian 5 hours ago||
Oh yeah totally, you'll 100% beat surveillance with a chinese phone and a Russian email service. No way anyone at all will spy on you that way.

The best privacy tech comes from people who live in these 5 and 14 eyes countries. Try a little bit of threat modeling instead of thinking about the problem emotionally.

logicchains 14 hours ago||
https://bitchat.free/ is one, if you can convince any of your friends to use it.
adamgordonbell 6 hours ago||
Also if Canadian, join the CCLA. They are the ones fighting for these rights.

https://ccla.org/

wmchen 5 hours ago||
How does one join the CCLA?

The only reference to membership I see from the Commissioner for Lobbying states [1]:

> Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA) has two classes of members: ordinary members and voting members. Membership in CCLA shall be available to persons interested in furthering the Corporation's purposes and who have applied for and been accepted into membership in the Corporation by resolution of the board or in such other manner as may be determined by the board, in accordance with any membership criteria set by the board. Voting members are members who have been accepted as voting members by the board. A voting membership expires 12 months after the date of board acceptance, unless renewed by the board.

I don't see anything to this effect on the website, like a membership application form.

This is in contrast to the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association which just published the decision this week to have a flat $5 open membership.

[1]: https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure/ocl/lrs/do/vwRg?cno=376...

stackedinserter 6 hours ago||
They don't fight for these rights.
bluefirebrand 15 hours ago||
I'm Canadian, and this matters a lot to me, but people don't care

The culture here is so mired in political apathy that it feels futile to even bother. People just do not care at all

I'm not a huge activist but I have been involved in a number of things when they matter a lot to me over the past twenty years or so, starting in college, but not a single one of them has ever gone my way

I'm unemployed now and worried I'm going to have an incredibly hard time ever finding work in software again, and AI is taking over, and here I am. Defeated again

I don't have it in me to fight this stuff anymore. The machine has won against me at least

shovas 14 hours ago||
I'm Canadian, too. I think most Canadians are just not informed. Most Canadians still get their news from state funded media which of course spin for the state because 'follow the money'.
swat535 13 hours ago||
We have a very complacent population, which explains the lack of innovation coming out of the country. People's idea of "business' right now is simply renting out their basement.

Most go to work, accept whatever policy the government decides is good for them, and don't push back as their living conditions decline. Given that, is it surprising that we don't see much activism?

I wish it was different but I don't know what to do. Perhaps Canadians should steal a page from the French?

bluefirebrand 11 hours ago||
I would love if more of the world's populations were as politically active as the French
nxm 10 hours ago||
And riot/loot?
bluefirebrand 9 hours ago||
Well we shouldn't leave all of the looting to Private Equity firms
ambione 13 hours ago|||
hey bud, right there with you. these are the hardest times we've faced in a very long time, but humans are nothing if not adaptable. we're fucked today but we'll see about tomorrow. wishing you the best.
bluefirebrand 11 hours ago||
Thanks dude, back at you.
Vaushite 15 hours ago|||
[dead]
allthetime 15 hours ago|||
Sounds like you’re just as apathetic as those you despise.

Watching our provinces fall one by one to corrupt/kleptocratic “conservative” governments has certainly done a number on me, but it’s only made me more vocal and more involved in local advocacy.

All that apathy out there is an opportunity to awaken care and turn the tide.

Get off your ass and help.

bigyabai 15 hours ago||
Well, I'm American, and I watched my peers lose this fight 10+ years ago.

I was in school when the Snowden leaks came around, and asked dozens of students and teachers what they thought about it. The majority of them had no idea what had happened, some even outright rejecting it as a foreign smear campaign. A handful of people showed interest, but lost interest when there was no connection to aliens or the Bermuda triangle. My freedom-loving cohort was too preoccupied with YouTube, Twitter and Instagram for it to matter.

Fast forward to today, you're probably running USA-designed spyware on whatever computer and phone you import from America. Canada already belongs to FIVE EYES, your mobile handset market is almost entirely captured by pushover US corporations that backdoor Push Notifications and rename lakes apropos of nothing.

No matter what happens with this bill, the threat of surveillance will loom long over Canadians. Political motivation is important, but trusting the United States is an albatross on the neck.

joshdavham 15 hours ago||
I’m also Canadian and I don’t share your pessimism at all.

The people I know are not apathetic and I’m sorry that things don’t go your way politically, but that’s life. For example, the recent Vancouver election didn’t go my way - big whoop.

shovas 14 hours ago||
But the Vancouver elections are a microcosm of left-leaning Canadians across the country. There's no hope for the foreseeable future while boomer power remains.
donmcronald 13 hours ago||
I read it a few weeks ago. Something that really bothers me is that parts are written like big tech ToS that are designed to make it sound like they’re doing something for you, but they’re not.

The restrictions on powers are one example. There’s almost nothing there, but they say something like “are not allowed to compel service providers to retain data that will identify the content of your communications.”

That’s bullshit weasel words. Everyone is keeping that stuff and nothing restricts the “written sometime in the future” rules from compelling service providers to produce all of the data they’ve collected. There’s also no restriction on compelling real time wire taps.

If that was a real restriction it would say something like “retain, capture, or produce.”

There are also gag orders falling out of the sky like it’s raining and no mechanism to eventually force transparency when they’re used. They also have broad latitude to define and redefine a ton of rules that haven’t even been written yet.

I know of some places that do conferences and I don’t know what they’ll do if classified as a service provider. Imagine KYC on a couple hundred people trying to participate in a 2 hour conference.

Edit: And I think it’s a big win for organized crime. The police will only know how to use the easy tooling to catch the lowest level, dumbest criminals. The higher up criminals will (or probably already do) use private servers for communication.

Does anyone think organized crime is relying on WhatsApp or Snapchat? That’s what the low level suckers will be using (and getting caught by) so everyone can pretend the police are doing their job.

FLeXMurphy 15 hours ago||
I remember a few people who opposed this bill, including a Canadian professor of law/lawyer Michael <something>, who wanted to oppose this. What happened to that? HN had blog posts about it I believe.
EmbarrassedHelp 12 hours ago||
Pretty much every group in Canada is opposed to this bill, except for law enforcement, the Brampton city mayor, and the Canadian Centre for Child Protection (C3P).
slopinthebag 15 hours ago||
michael geist. yes pretty much everybody knowledgeable about this bill, regardless of political stripes are against this bill. except for the party in power.

the media spends almost all of their time attacking the opposition leader instead of the current pm (who has a majority gov), so people are unfortunately quite under informed on c22 and other things the gov is doing.

creaturemachine 15 hours ago|||
CPC should take down the punching bag if they're tired of it being used.
slopinthebag 15 hours ago||
really insightful comment.
notnullorvoid 10 hours ago||||
> except for the party in power.

The votes for this bill seem to indicate that nearly all MPs regardless of party voted in favour, and none of them voted against.

EmbarrassedHelp 8 hours ago|||
> The votes for this bill seem to indicate that nearly all MPs regardless of party voted in favour, and none of them voted against.

Where did you see that? Every non Liberal MP voted against C-22.

slopinthebag 7 hours ago|||
these votes? where only liberal mp's voted yea?

https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/45/1/172?view=par...

notnullorvoid 7 hours ago||
I'm embarrassed, I searched for the vote, and looked at the results of wrong bill C-22:

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/190?view=par...

I didn't even read the text or look at the date... Reading what that C-22 was actually about I'm glad that one got a near unanimous yes vote.

And seeing the actual results makes me more hopeful that the senate may not allow it through.

slopinthebag 4 hours ago||
tbf the way they post these things online is pretty confusing...

i do not have much faith in the senate but i would be pleasantly surprised. the fact 100 of them were appointed by the previous liberal government does not have me optimistic however.

shovas 14 hours ago|||
[flagged]
elmer2 9 hours ago||
Liberalism is all about government control. Many here seem to think you can have one without the other, and it's just not possible.
cowlevel 9 hours ago|
"liberalism" isn't really a word that refers to any coherent concept. It can mean whatever you need it to mean.
shovas 14 hours ago||
Unfortunately, our state funded media have no interest in pushing back on that because they're state funded by the state pushing the bill. And, in my experience, if you're not on X, you just don't know about these things. That's most Canadians. We're doomed until boomer power fades.
SkyeCA 13 hours ago||
The bill is going to pass, there is quite literally nothing I can do to stop it.

And when I say literally nothing, I mean literally nothing. My MP (the man I voted for) crossing the floor to join the current ruling party showed me exactly how much political power I have: absolutely fuck all.

tamimio 14 hours ago|
Fun fact: the government is already talking to companies who have customers to prep the infrastructure needed to handover any data requested, as in, they are almost guaranteed it will pass.
EmbarrassedHelp 12 hours ago|
Do you have a source for that?
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