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Posted by Jowsey 20 hours ago

Kimi K3.1 Pro and K3.1 Pro Highspeed(www.kimi.ai)
https://www.kimi.com/code/docs/en/kimi-code/models.html

https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/kimi-k3-1-pro

https://www.modelcompare.ai/blog/china-open-source-ai

949 points | 568 commentspage 7
rvz 19 hours ago|
This is a frontier level model and is at worst 1 month behind Anthropic and OpenAI.
Imustaskforhelp 19 hours ago|
Which is also gonna be open weights on 4 Nov.

When the frontier is pacing itself in its speed in terms of adding new capabilities (notice how fast opus 5.5 got released after Astra), then that also means that the open weights models which were just behind are accelerating in their speed just as much as well.

Good news for us because the models which used to feel 6 months behind now feel like they are lesser.

Double threat to Anthropic and OAI because if open weights models become good enough at the current level of Sota while being cheaper (which time will tell if this model fits the bill or not), then people will use those models instead of OAI/Anthropic provided it is "good enough"

Though it has to be said that only real world use case can be trusted but I remain optimistic and hope that this turns out to be good in real world use cases as well.

But in my opinion, all of this is really good for us end users!

inknight 17 hours ago||
> then people will use those models instead of OAI/Anthropic provided it is "good enough"

The only reason people aren't doing this is that hardware prices are high, thanks to, well, OpenAI and Anthropic :D

I wonder when will this madness end

ricky_risky 12 hours ago||
kimi seems routing the input into different models, hard problems tend to take much longer time and chain-of-thought than easy problems even if the selected model is k3.1 pro
Haunt1000 18 hours ago||
SWE2 is post trained apparently on Kimi 3. Using it now on Devin, as it's free until the end of the month for a pro account (hey, $20 a month), and it's pretty strong. If I had to pay for tokens I'm not sure how efficient it would be, but definitely Kimi 3 seems a great base. I co-code with ChatGPT 6 and between the three of us it's pretty effective.

So interested to see what the Kimi 3.1 has to offer.

dom96 19 hours ago||
So I just created a brand new Kimi API account and it seems I have no access to this new model. Is this expected?
minimaxir 19 hours ago||
Not the point, but did Moonshot AI announce this at Saturday 1 AM in China? Weird timing for a model drop.
dannyw 11 hours ago||
Maybe limited compute to handle launch traffic spikes?

Still get the model out there.

drcode 19 hours ago||
makes you wonder if they have intel on an upcoming model drop by the frontiers
eunos 18 hours ago||
GLM maybe
jiraiyasarutobi 18 hours ago||
Wow. that's a beautiful website
hartator 19 hours ago||
Benchmarks seem amazing. Rivalzing with Opus 5.5 is something.

I wonder when the Artificial Analysis bench will be out?

secondary_op 8 hours ago||
the west perceived hegemony is cooked, so long, and thanks for all the hollywood.
maxdo 18 hours ago||
this is fun to watch, next week : new fable and astra, also where use muse wonder in this benches? they where leading model in many of these charts.
chrsw 19 hours ago|
So, the US economy spends trillions of dollars to be at the "frontier" and China puts out a model that basically does the same thing, for free, and for a tiny fraction of the development cost. How is this sustainable?
SXX 19 hours ago||
It's not like US companies spend trillions on training itself.

Mostly it's datacenter build out and circular financing magic when the same dollars being commited multiple times by multiple companies passing hot potato to each other. They basically commit capacities 2-3 years ahead.

hgoel 19 hours ago|||
It's 'sustainable' because there's enough regulatory risk to using Chinese models that many will avoid them, and a 3T parameter model is still a bit beyond even many enthusiasts for running locally.
ashkankiani 18 hours ago|||
That regulatory risk argument won't work forever. It's the same with how the US bans chinese EVs which is why Tesla has high market share in the US, but in the rest of the world, chinese EVs are doing big numbers. The future is going to be full of surprises.
verdverm 17 hours ago||||
There are US companies hosting the open weight models in US data centers.
hgoel 15 hours ago||
Being hosted in the US is not necessarily enough. I am not allowed to use them even if I run them on my own work-provided computer.
MangoCoffee 19 hours ago|||
its hyperscalers and neoclouds data center build out that ate those trillions.

a lot of those money is the commitment from US AI labs that's not yet spend until the data center is roll out.

you are conflating.

chrsw 18 hours ago||
Maybe I'm conflating. I could be dead wrong about all this. But I'm trying to zoom out and look at the big picture. So, I'm letting the details sort of blend away and I'm just asking myself: "Is such a large financial sink in our economy, at the macro level, really going to offer the value that the investment warrants?". So, the particulars of who exactly is spending what where I guess doesn't concern me as much. What I'm thinking about is American companies, American people, American dollars going to something that seems like an iffy value proposition.

Now, if you tell me American businesses are turning cheap Chinese tokens into goods and services of high value, for Americans and people all over the world, then obviously I would have a different outlook on what's happening here.

jrflo 16 hours ago||
You are conflating. The build out is almost entirely for running inference, not training. Open weight models will make that inference build out bet more likely to work as it adds diversity to the suppliers, all the data centers are not beholden to just OAI and Anthropic to buy their compute - they can host their own models (even Chinese ones, in America) if that becomes a popular option.

Zooming out, I think that build out still makes sense. There will be losers in it, but think about how ridiculous the amount of compute we're using has increased from 4 years ago. If I had to guess 60-70% of developers and engineers everywhere in the world are now burning thousands in compute individually every month, whereas it was previously approximately 0.

chrsw 10 hours ago||
I see. So maybe the situation isn’t as bad as I thought. I was thinking if you took all the money and resources spent on building the biggest models, across the two big labs, the hyperscalers, the dozens of neo labs, and you reallocated that money to building value on cheaper Chinese models that would be a much better proposition than doing whatever it takes to be head of Chinese model performance by a few percentage points for a few months. And I wasn’t just referring to the cost of training one model, I was considering the total cost of maintaining an entire ecosystem with the ability to do this.

But what I’m hearing is this is a negligible cost compared to inference buildouts. Fair enough.

phoghed 19 hours ago||
There would be no Chinese model without US models to distill though. So, in a way, the Chinese models also cost a trillion dollars, they just don’t cost China that much.
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