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Posted by Jowsey 20 hours ago

Kimi K3.1 Pro and K3.1 Pro Highspeed(www.kimi.ai)
https://www.kimi.com/code/docs/en/kimi-code/models.html

https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/kimi-k3-1-pro

https://www.modelcompare.ai/blog/china-open-source-ai

957 points | 575 commentspage 8
chrsw 20 hours ago|
So, the US economy spends trillions of dollars to be at the "frontier" and China puts out a model that basically does the same thing, for free, and for a tiny fraction of the development cost. How is this sustainable?
SXX 20 hours ago||
It's not like US companies spend trillions on training itself.

Mostly it's datacenter build out and circular financing magic when the same dollars being commited multiple times by multiple companies passing hot potato to each other. They basically commit capacities 2-3 years ahead.

hgoel 19 hours ago|||
It's 'sustainable' because there's enough regulatory risk to using Chinese models that many will avoid them, and a 3T parameter model is still a bit beyond even many enthusiasts for running locally.
ashkankiani 19 hours ago|||
That regulatory risk argument won't work forever. It's the same with how the US bans chinese EVs which is why Tesla has high market share in the US, but in the rest of the world, chinese EVs are doing big numbers. The future is going to be full of surprises.
verdverm 18 hours ago||||
There are US companies hosting the open weight models in US data centers.
hgoel 16 hours ago||
Being hosted in the US is not necessarily enough. I am not allowed to use them even if I run them on my own work-provided computer.
MangoCoffee 19 hours ago|||
its hyperscalers and neoclouds data center build out that ate those trillions.

a lot of those money is the commitment from US AI labs that's not yet spend until the data center is roll out.

you are conflating.

chrsw 19 hours ago||
Maybe I'm conflating. I could be dead wrong about all this. But I'm trying to zoom out and look at the big picture. So, I'm letting the details sort of blend away and I'm just asking myself: "Is such a large financial sink in our economy, at the macro level, really going to offer the value that the investment warrants?". So, the particulars of who exactly is spending what where I guess doesn't concern me as much. What I'm thinking about is American companies, American people, American dollars going to something that seems like an iffy value proposition.

Now, if you tell me American businesses are turning cheap Chinese tokens into goods and services of high value, for Americans and people all over the world, then obviously I would have a different outlook on what's happening here.

jrflo 17 hours ago||
You are conflating. The build out is almost entirely for running inference, not training. Open weight models will make that inference build out bet more likely to work as it adds diversity to the suppliers, all the data centers are not beholden to just OAI and Anthropic to buy their compute - they can host their own models (even Chinese ones, in America) if that becomes a popular option.

Zooming out, I think that build out still makes sense. There will be losers in it, but think about how ridiculous the amount of compute we're using has increased from 4 years ago. If I had to guess 60-70% of developers and engineers everywhere in the world are now burning thousands in compute individually every month, whereas it was previously approximately 0.

chrsw 11 hours ago||
I see. So maybe the situation isn’t as bad as I thought. I was thinking if you took all the money and resources spent on building the biggest models, across the two big labs, the hyperscalers, the dozens of neo labs, and you reallocated that money to building value on cheaper Chinese models that would be a much better proposition than doing whatever it takes to be head of Chinese model performance by a few percentage points for a few months. And I wasn’t just referring to the cost of training one model, I was considering the total cost of maintaining an entire ecosystem with the ability to do this.

But what I’m hearing is this is a negligible cost compared to inference buildouts. Fair enough.

phoghed 20 hours ago||
There would be no Chinese model without US models to distill though. So, in a way, the Chinese models also cost a trillion dollars, they just don’t cost China that much.
SomeonesAccount 20 hours ago||
No AA scores yet.
minimaxir 19 hours ago|
Page isn't up but it's a 55 (4th overall) https://x.com/ArtificialAnlys/status/2113688083145314416
kocial 19 hours ago||
No comparison against Gemini 4 Argon?
sergiotapia 20 hours ago||
What is the best subscription to use with Kimi to use for software engineering work? And how is usage? I remember when K3 came out it burned through usage at an insane rate. Is this still the case with Kimi K3.1 Pro?
esafak 18 hours ago|
It seems so, judging by quotas on https://opencode.ai/go
justauserid 6 hours ago|||
Do you use OpenCode Go? Any way to speed-up the response times? It's painfully slow right now. Or that's the cost? :)
esafak 39 minutes ago||
I pick the faster, cheaper models so I don't have much complaints; I don't use Kimi on it. You could ask on their Discord if the $40 plan is faster, as it claims to be.
sergiotapia 17 hours ago|||
https://x.com/LLMJunky/status/2113692382268936566

Their plans are utterly worthless seems like. Will avoid.

scotty79 20 hours ago||
> Kimi K3.1 Pro is a post-trained version of Kimi K3, with substantially larger post-training compute.

It's very nice that we entered a time where models are large enough and we can push the frontier just by training them longer.

When the next generation of gardware comes the ones on the smaller size will be running on a computer that might cost as little as a good car.

So after a home and a car, next major family purchase might be personal AI. And when the robots get good, pehraps in a decade, a fourth major purchase might pop up that will pair nicely with the third one.

Why would a family need an AI? Maybe it's the same kind of question as why would it need a personal computer.

cardboard9926 20 hours ago||
55 on AAI, really awesome
alexdykyi 13 hours ago||
kimik2.5 flash was the game changer
I_am_tiberius 20 hours ago||
That's incredible
rafaelero 20 hours ago||
That's nuts.
the_real_cher 15 hours ago|
Is Kimi abliterated or uncensored?
lucrbvi 15 hours ago|
no
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