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Posted by laurenth 8 hours ago

Lula wins election after final votes tallied(www.reuters.com)
389 points | 389 commentspage 2
eviks 5 hours ago||
Are humans still involved in summarizing? Why is "What you need to know" missing the vote count even though the title is about votes?
motionlessveloc 4 hours ago|
AFAIK the final numbers are not out yet, the electoral commission called it because Lula's margin is sufficiently large that Bolsonaro mathematically cannot win.
welzel 1 hour ago||
So, how long until Trump decides that he dislikes Lula and removes him by force?
shrubby 2 hours ago||
Nice to see this despite the tech fascist effort.
spwa4 2 hours ago||
Importantly president Lula has vowed to regulate internet and social media around elections "within 100 days".
watwut 1 hour ago||
Sounds like a good idea considering facebool and twitter behavior
verdverm 1 hour ago||
seems like social media titans generally need to be regulated much more, and 365 days a year
zapataband1 4 hours ago||
An area of Amazon forest roughly the size of the US state of New Jersey has remained standing due to Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva’s leadership of Brazil, according to Carbon Brief analysis.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-lula-presidency-saved-a...

for those partying https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vL--PrvsJ0

thimabi 7 hours ago||
Once again, a clear anti-Bolsonaro vote from the majority of the electorate. Lula won because he got last-minute support from the moderates and even some right-wingers. It certainly does not feel like a victory of the left.

Now he will face a much bigger opposition in Congress and therefore will have to find a middle ground.

I expect his policies to move even further to the right. This might pave the way for his vice-president Alckmin, a historical right-winger, to run in the 2030 elections — likely against São Paulo’s governor Tarcísio de Freitas, also a right-winger and considered more moderate than the Bolsonaros despite being associated with them.

(reposting my own comment from a related thread)

nemomarx 7 hours ago||
The margin is a little close, so is the Senate expected to be deadlocked? Or is there a coalition that can form between moderates and the left?
thimabi 7 hours ago|||
I wouldn’t say deadlocked but the coalition between moderates and the left isn’t a given. There are many centrist parties who will likely alternate between supporting and opposing the government depending on the issue.
senorrib 5 hours ago||||
Legislative branch in Brazil never deadlocks. Coalitions are a very natural part of our democracy.
matheusmoreira 5 hours ago||
Yeah, they will just make deals. Seriously doubt there will be a deadlock. Hope they at least manage to impeach the supreme court justices, which is what we elected them for.
ufo 6 hours ago|||
Senate is very right wing.
brunoff 4 hours ago|||
i don't know why you were downvoted. any turn to the moderation/center seems good news to me. those crazy swings between extremes left or right are just bad. i have never voted for both bolsonaro neither lula and crave for something closer to the center.

lula is a little less crazy (compared to bolsonaro), likely not anti-science, preserves the amazon, seems to care about keeping the same constituition and so on, but he heaves his hand when it comes to (mostly populist) spending, like there's no tomorrow.

he thinks he is helping the poor, but it is just for short term. so much public debt, in a few years everyone, rich or poor, will have pay the price, with interest. people that likes him usually say they don't like milei, but his incredible debt build up is actually a future-milei magnet.

also, after so much terms and "custo brazil" ("Brazilian (Business) Cost Burden"?) still prohibitive, the country never goes up from its terrible positions in making business rankings. one can just not hope he does anything better now after so much terms. his spending is too demand biased.

watwut 1 hour ago|||
Big issue is that there are no swings between crazy left and crazy right.

There is crazy right and significantly more normal left. And if you want the center to win, you need to ackwnowledge that. Anything else helps the more crazy side.

matheusmoreira 4 hours ago|||
> he heaves his hand when it comes to (mostly populist) spending, like there's no tomorrow

This is key to his reelection. He literally ran on a "Bolsonaro will end Bolsa Família" campaign.

It's unfortunate. Lula inherited a post-Washington consensus neoliberal Brazil. He had nearly 20 years to undo all that and reindustrialize the country, thereby putting us on China's path.

I would have voted for him regardless of ideology if he had done it, but he didn't. It's just easier to just anesthetize the population and put them on paliative care with free money.

> he thinks he is helping the poor, but it is just for short term.

This "short term" is unbearably long... But I do see signs that the system is reaching its limits. Government was already having trouble paying pensions before Vorcaro.

> so much public debt, in a few years everyone, rich or poor, will have pay the price, with interest.

Bankers love Lula for a reason. Record profits.

runarberg 7 hours ago|||
I would call this a defensive victory. The left’s best chance was a 0-0 draw, so they put everyone in defense and managed to prevent the right from scoring a victory goal.
nielsbot 7 hours ago||
moving to the right would be a trap. (cf. Dem party vs Trump) The left must instead build an anti-right wing narrative. People vote on material benefits so delivering more of those should be top priority—I think Trumps slump in the US proves that.
bit-anarchist 2 hours ago|||
Delivering material benefits requires fiscal health, something Brazil lacks: https://tradingeconomics.com/brazil/government-debt-to-gdp
marcosdumay 4 hours ago|||
Nobody wants to see them cut taxes from the rich or reduce employers rights. The popular "right" in Brazil wants taxes to be easier to pay, judges not to decide based on who is asking, and clear rules on what you can or can't do.

Also, nobody can beat Dilma on cutting taxes from the rich.

nielsbot 2 hours ago||
But there's also a religious fundamentalist faction, no? Which I recently learned was fomented by the CIA years ago under Reagan (when the Catholic church was moving left and the "US" was afraid of Brazil moving to the left as well)

https://smalands.org/en/the-cold-wars-unholy-war-how-the-cia...

abdelhousni 7 hours ago||
Fascism loses, maybe there is hope for the rest of the world.
hellgas00 6 hours ago||
"Lula's re-election will strengthen Brazil's ties with Russia, Brazilian Workers Party congressman Reimont Otoni told TASS"

The world is more complex than "fascist" vs "communist"

matheusmoreira 6 hours ago|||
Bolsonaro was also friendly towards Russia. Any president will be. Brazil depends on their fertilizers.
senorrib 5 hours ago||
So what?! Nobody is saying otherwise. But PT vastly misrepresents how close it is to fascists and dictators. Love them, but hate to publicize them.
Daishiman 4 hours ago|||
Why is it that this a concern to you but it's not a concern when the US and European powers align themselves with Saudi Arabia and Qatar?
matheusmoreira 5 hours ago|||
I agree with you.
dietr1ch 6 hours ago||||
I get that BRICS is world-domination wise scary to the US, but I don't really think the rest of the world fears that sans the US's warmongering.
hellgas00 6 hours ago||
Tbh don’t really care which side is right (some of Lula's politics I like and other not). I’m just pointing out the mental gymnastics HN goes through to paint one group as “fascist,” while completely ignoring the grey areas that don’t fit their cleancut worldview.
tensor 5 hours ago||
None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with whether or not a candidate is fascist. No “mental gymnastics” are needed.
cowlevel 6 hours ago||||
I don't know enough about their available options to know how bad this is.
free_bip 6 hours ago||||
Are you taking this single congressman's word as fact?
hellgas00 6 hours ago||
https://www.barrons.com/news/lula-calls-to-strengthen-strate...

Literally Lula said as much

"We are interested in discussing the defence area, the space area, the scientific and technological area, the education area, and especially, the energy issue area," Lula said.

collinmcnulty 5 hours ago|||
Only if you beat the fascists. Otherwise it gets real black-and-white real fast
010ED67913 1 hour ago|||
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medellin 7 hours ago||
[flagged]
TheWrongGuy 7 hours ago|||
Who is we? Bolsonaro supporters?
johntitor23 7 hours ago|||
Can you define fascism?
declan_roberts 7 hours ago||
[flagged]
cwnyth 6 hours ago|||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvgZtdmyKlI
platevoltage 7 hours ago|||
https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
declan_roberts 6 hours ago||
So the anti-fascist USSR and the Nazis overlapped by about 80-90%.
cowlevel 5 hours ago|||
It's almost like the USSR was, in fact, fascist.
runarberg 5 hours ago|||
Fails criteria 1, 2, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12. So that is 7 out of 14 = 50%.

USSR was famously anti-religion (criteria 8) and pro labor (criteria 9 and 10) so thinking USSR shared 80-90% with Nazis is kind of laughable.

declan_roberts 5 hours ago||
Pro labor is when the government makes it illegal for you to switch jobs or quit.
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