I don't remember why exactly but it was definitely just 'linux VPS = Ubuntu' for a long time. I think they got reputation as being the 'just works' option because they were happier to include some non-free graphics drivers etc where Debian was the more pure option but most end users didn't care
But since they added snap and I started running into issues with trying to install Docker etc a few years ago I default to Debian now and most of the time I don't even know which it is.
And don't get me started with Debian testing. I want a LTS distro not a testing one.
And Ubuntu 24.04 LTS is using 6.8.
Ubuntu releases a new version every six months, but an LTS — which is probably what most people run in production — only every two years. Debian releases come out every two years.
So if you only run Ubuntu LTS, the release cadence is the same as Debian.
Which only came out a few months ago, and which only recently released its .1, so the do-release-upgrade message only recently appeared for most people.
I'd be interested to know how many folks have changed their current production over to 26TLS in the last six months. I'm guessing not a lot.
So yes, there is a newer LTS, but what is its current market share as compared to 24 TLS (or even 22LTS)?
Ubuntu releases its LTSes in even years, and Debian does its releases in odd years:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_release_version_history...
(I mean nothing is 100% but I've been mixing packages for like 2 decades now and literally can't remember any specific trouble resulting from it.)
While I won't deny that this may often work, I disagree that it's a good idea, and that `apt` being smart is sufficient to guarantee that this works (or keeps working in the future).
Pinning specific packages from `testing` or `unstable` is explicitly discouraged, for very good reasons covered by this classic link: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian#Don.27t_make_a_Frank... .
Arguably, the backports kernel is the right choice to get a newer kernel on Debian Stable. Indeed, in the past, the backports kernel could take awhile to update, but no more - case in point, `trixie-backports` currently contains `7.2`, same as `unstable`.
Either way backports does sound like the best option, sure.
You either want to have the new stuff or LTS. You can't have both.
If you want real testing, you should run "unstable". If you're in for fun, try experimental.
Running Testing on my desktops and stable on my servers since forever. None of them broke, none of them created problems.
I don't care Stable running 6.x.x. It gets security updates in less than 24h, and is applied automatically before I wake up, and doesn't ship coreutils with 104CVEs, just because it's Rust.
However, one thing that many people don't know is that Testing enters a package freeze every time a new Stable release is to come out. And this freeze can last anywhere between 4 to 7 months. So for that time period, it stops having frequent updates and becomes essentially a stable distro.
Again. Stable is for servers, testing is for personal use.
I never argued otherwise, ever.
However, while Testing is "relatively secure", it's never "Server secure". I'd never use testing or testing packages in stable or any server for that matter.
I have to add that for me, testing definitely breaks stuff sometimes. Nothing beyond my ability to fix, though. Nothing beyond anyone's ability now that AI is around.
That's interesting, can you give an example? Asking as a curious Debian user.
It's not 'as supported', sure, but I'll also note that wifi, at least, has worked on pretty much every modern laptop which I have installed Debian upon.
Why not just install a newer Linux version from the official backports repository if you need it?
You get 7.12 from backports?
But nobody runs Debian stable on their laptop.
They run Debian unstable or testing, with firmware.
And everything just works
They also had credible commitments to long term support that brought people on board. I think that was enough to get them on the map, but personally as a desktop user, I haven't used it in a while, mostly sticking to Debian and Arch.
Ubuntu found me (finally, with the tutorialhelp of a localLLM) in 2026, and I don't trust most of the opt-outs.
I was confused because the project was already available, with detailed setup instructions, an `llms.txt`, and everything else needed to get started.
Then he showed me a screenshot of him asking ChatGPT about it. Apparently, ChatGPT was using some outdated cached information or something, because it gave him a wall of text explaining that the project was still “coming soon” and wasn't ready to use.
If he'd just opened the landing page, he would've seen that the project was already available.
Now my friends don't have trouble calling doctors, but can't set up port forwarding (not like any games require it anymore).
After October 2026, nobody should be port-forwarding IMHO.
I am next to learn about the "tailscale options" of this new world.
Wish us all luck.
Thanks for the link (above).
Now I have learnt something.
I am definitely still learning.
As I only really learn visually (i.e. I love GUI environments), LLMs have enabled me to (quite dangerously, I might re-enforce) finally explore Linux (from MacOS for ~40 years).
I have tried for a long time (to adopt any Linux) – the fact that an LLM also won't be a sassyb when asking simple questions... is one reason I am so comfortable with my/our future(s).
–ProbablyNotMachines
Surprised how many answers here are on "social" reasons, and ignoring that Ubuntu does provide genuine additions to Debian.
Ubuntu includes additional proprietary drivers to Debian. So there are legitimate hardware cases were Ubuntu will work out the box and Debian won't. I can't speak for how many people need those drivers, and how much of choice is down to defaults/inertia etc.
From hearing interviews with PopOS folk, I think this is also a big reason people choose Ubuntu as a base for a lot of Distros instead of Debian.
Debian has caught up, but it's been a minute since I've installed it.
What are the numbers of people still installing servers on the real hardware and needing these proprietary drivers?
Is AI changing the game where more people want bare metal and GPUs with proprietor drivers?
A fair few years ago I did run Ubuntu on my desktop and laptop when I wanted some more similarity with my servers which ran Debian.
And similar breakdowns with Fedora/RHEL.
But Ubuntu or Fedora on a server? No thanks.
Yes, for GPU workloads or just raw container orchestration platforms. Or gaming!
> Fedora on a server? No thanks.
Fedora's pokemon evolution turns it into RHEL, with not much change.
I get the sense that the OP of this particular thread was asking about Ubuntu in general, not just the server. If it was the server, I'd understand it, but Ubuntu on the desktop still makes sense. And yes, Ubuntu is in my gaming laptop.
A lot of those are running on bespoke hardware specific to the hyperscaler.
A gradually increasing number of popular userland applications have been publishing their own apt repositories however so this is less of a problem now than it used to be.
Over the years though I've found that I much prefer Debian's relative stability and more thoughtful, if slightly plodding, release cadence.
I'm on Kubuntu (home installs) but have been looking to move since Ubuntu went over to Snaps and started breaking everything (MX looks most likely for me). The task of moving the family over is stopping me; I've been using Kubuntu for a very long time now.
Debian is still on Python 3.13 while u until is on 3.14
That's just ONE example out of many.
It had issues all the time, and finding solutions required searching online, manually. Time consuming, difficult process. Very un-beginner-friendly.
From the throve of all possible distros, one stood out. Ubuntu. Very popular. Askubuntu Forums (with coffee beans denoting ranks) was the place when, 9/10 times, the answer to your problem could be found.
So when your fedora friend cried trying to get his camera and sound working, you either found the solutions already, or asked for them and got them. Usually the former.
That was the biggest advantage of Ubuntu. Big community and wealth of troubleshooting knowledge already available. And it had the opinion of a beginner friendly system. Which made the community grow and created a large market/userbase for help threads/tutorials.
Add to that, that people are creatures of habit and 'voila - you have a lot of people sticking to Ubuntu just because they never got so pissed at them that they would change their distro.
AI: you probably turned on airplane mode
me: I definitely didn't
So I love debian but it's still rough around the edges and I'm not sure I'd recommend non-technical people dive in.
I ended up on Mint because I consistently found that Debian was willing to compromise their philosophy for the live distro installer, but they would never warn you that you were about to reboot into an air gapped system.
The old installer (boot-floppies) was legendarily prickly at the time Ubuntu was introduced, but it's long since been replaced by the much friendlier debian-installer. And the default install images now include non-free firmware by default, so modern wifi, bluetooth, and graphics hardware are fully supported.
To be honest, Debian now tends to be fairly vanilla and boring and it's actually Ubuntu that often ends up being a bit weirder. For example, consider how they treat the Snap packaging system for consumer software, or the rust rewrite of coreutils. Debian provides both as supported options (of course it does, Debian supports pretty much everything!), but Ubuntu pushes them to all users by default.
I may be biased as a Debian user, but if Ubuntu now reacts slower than Debian this may push some people to reconsider their choice.
So Ubuntu LTS is pretty much Debian Stable with some different defaults (more opinionated, for better or worse).
I feel like we're close to a post-distro era of operating systems though. My ansible playbook customizes so much already it wouldn't take too much more to just start from debian tbh.
Either way, I just wanted to note you can use APT to include Mozilla's Firefox and Thunderbird repo. That way, you get a .deb from them.
One specific thing I like about Ubuntu: I know a new version gets released every six months (I believe OpenBSD innovated this?) and the version is recognized by date. The LTS is released every two years around april in the even years. Otherwise it is april/october.
Since you're switching to Debian, could you tell me what you don't understand in Debian that was working fine on Ubuntu for you?
I am not an Ubuntu user, so it's hard for me to know. But I find it very surprising that after 10 years on Ubuntu, it would be "annoying" to switch to Debian.
Install Debian and you get 3-5 years of support.
Ubuntu also invests a lot into their desktop experience while Debian is closer to stock Gnome. That's more of a preference thing, though.
Debian has also traditionally been a pain to use with proprietary software. Nvidia drivers, WiFi firmware, you name it. It got better in the past years but it's hard to shake the bad name.
Unfortunately that's been dwindling. Canonical seems to be focused on servers and virtualised instances. The desktop experience is stagnant.
It's 2009 or so and I want to try Linux. "Just try Ubuntu" they say, and I have a good time. I see that many "How to use X on Linux" guides, or FOSS software, often build for only Debian, and sometimes only Ubuntu. This is fine until snaps give me huge problems in 2018, and so I completely stop using Ubuntu desktop.
Now in 2026, I manage three servers (two on Ubuntu), one Raspberry Pi (on Ubuntu), and two Linux desktop installations. I stopped using Ubuntu desktop in 2018 but snaps are less problematic for my server workflows, so now I have three Ubuntu server installs. On my desktops and my one non-Ubuntu server, I find myself sometimes missing Ubuntuland. (These aren't Debian though, so I might just be missing Debianland.)
"Just use Ubuntu" is now something that has bitten me in using servers. Two bites in 17 years is a fantastic track record. But this slow response to a CVE fix has me looking at Debian, and this has shaken my faith in canonical. "Do they pull in upstream security fixes quickly" is one of my first questions for any FOSS I use.
But my servers aren't Nix or IaC or whatever, and so... Taking them down and putting them up would take a lot of time and risk, which are two things I'm not so willing to spend. Maybe it's 10 minutes, or maybe there's a bandaid fix I have from 2023 that I forgot about and would need an hour to re-derive. So, I find myself taking the security gamble instead.
I might be moving over to Rocky Linux 10.
Five years of guaranteed updates, with an option to pay for another five years ticks the box for accreditors and the like.
The much vaguer Debian policy that a release will be supported for some undetermined period based on how frequently they release, and then get some kind of volunteer-based LTS support for a couple of years after that, and then maybe further through some third-party ELTS program is a much harder sell.
> Predictable and frequent release cycles
[0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20250504071247/https://www.infor...
That's just some rough reasoning in my head.
Also when you install third-party software, 100% of them will support Ubuntu. That's more about workstation usage, though. But having tested platform matters.
Debian used to move a bit slow in terms of userspace, and that's true, but for servers, that's a non-issue for the last 20 years or so (from my experience).
On the Desktop side, Fedora and Ubuntu moves faster on the userspace front, but if your system is behind a NAT, and you know what you're doing, Debian Testing is just as good, more stable and it's rolling (except when it's feature freeze, but a stable workhorse is better than a shiny but breaking one).
Debian allows me to sleep well at night, provides guaranteed updates, and works rock solid all-round, so I won't be touching Ubuntu for the foreseeable future. Esp, with controversial choices like uutils, etc.
cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/nosnap.pref
Package: snapd Pin: release a=* Pin-Priority: -10
They changed that a few years ago, but plausibly the underlying prioritization of end-user experience is still lower than Ubuntu's degree of user focus.
I still wish Mark would rename his company "Ubuntu". He's a great guy, the company does great work, but I keep getting undeserved credit for it because we wouldn't sell him the domain name.
For example, the fonts and the font rendering in Ubuntu and its derivatives were noticeably better than on stock Debian/Arch/etc.
I moved all my new server/service deployments back to Debian around 2021/2022 (bullseye era).
I'm on an nvidia jetson which comes out of the box with Ubuntu pre-installed (it's slightly more complicated but that's the gist). You can run other OSes but it is a messy experience and you can easily run into problems.
Yes, it is shitty from nvidia that they do it this way. But it is also convenient.
When a non-technical person asks me “which Linux?” I recommend Ubuntu because it is about as gentle an experience as Linux is going to be. The install is friendly and the culture is less RTFM than anything else.
Those are the same reasons I run Ubuntu on my laptops that aren’t running Windows…I prefer low friction to arguable technical superiority. I’ve looked at other distros in the past and decided they weren’t worth the bother…To Me.
But that’s me, not you or anyone else. And my use case not yours or someone else’s.
To this point, adding "on ubuntu" to a search gives me better tutorials.
Disclaimer: I run on Gentoo, so I genuinely don't know.
But 15-20 years ago it was easier to install the nonfree stuff on ubuntu, like drivers and DVD playback and stuff. I don’t know if its still like that.
I never understood ubuntu as a server over debian, but for a desktop it was a nicer experience for a while.
Unfortunately, they did in recent history manage to still break iptables, zfs, nilfs and a bunch of machines with weird (arguably broken) firmware anyway, so my personal comparison between Debian (or simply directly the Kroah-Hartman/Levin stable upstream) and the Ubuntu backports is not exactly in favor of Ubuntu.
You and I know Debian isn't much different, they don't know cuz some never investigated. I say some because they landed in a role with a company that is Ubuntu and never had reason to learn anything else.
If one can't be bothered to install what is needed, maybe one should not run a server in production?
Quickly running something on your LAN for testing is different, but if you expose it to the Internet, probably your main concern shouldn't be "this is not installed".
Large enterprise with multiple knowledgeable people on payroll have different concerns than small me.
When I worked at Canonical, the funnel I observed was Gamer Culture and the Chronically Online. They don't know from Debian.
I used to like Ubuntu and Canonical products and these days I’m more indifferent towards them. Their products have a place, but I wish Canonical would stop killing off some of the more interesting side projects.
I hope that answers your question.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯I don’t use Ubuntu but use Fedora (and its derivatives) partially for that reason.
I really don’t care what I run on, as long as it’s some flavour of Linux, it works reliably, and it’s secure.
Enterprises care far more about vendor support than the typical Linux hacker at home.
Debian[1]:
> trixie (stable) (editors): heavily refactored vim fork
> 0.10.4-8: amd64 arm64 armel armhf i386 ppc64el riscv64 s390x
> forky (testing) (editors): heavily refactored vim fork
> 0.12.4-1: amd64 arm64 armhf i386 loong64 ppc64el riscv64 s390x
Ubuntu[2]:
> stonking (26.10) (editors): heavily refactored vim fork [universe]
> 0.12.4-1: amd64 arm64 armhf ppc64el riscv64 s390x
I use Debian stable myself and build neovim from source for this specific reason.
[1]: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=neovim
[2]: https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=neovim&searchon=...
I use desktop Ubuntu because it's up to date and it just works for me, and I can play the latest games in it with Steam + Proton. I don't have to tweak it or do any additional downloading of stuff besides the Nvidia drivers (I actually don't remember how I installed them).
Can I do this with Debian, in a no fuss way? (I know this can be done in any distro, that's why I'm stressing "no fuss").
But this is the thing I appreciate about Ubuntu. I know my LTS is from 26.04. I know all my software (with specific exceptions) is backported from that. The previous LTS were 24.04, 22.04, etc. With Debian, I won't know these out of my head. Partly cause I am into Ubuntu, but also because it isn't opaque. I mean, I don't remember from which time Potato and Woody were (but I used to run both back in the days). With Ubuntu, I remember (the codenames of Ubuntu I forgot).
Rest of games, Steam handles. I'm hooked on their ecosystem, kind if for a similar reason as Ubuntu (loyally sticked to them). As European I'd prefer a European gaming distribution platform, but Steam is just good and a fair netizen. Linux-friendly, too. I own a Steam Deck, too. Only reason I'd want non-Steam is all these free games I got on GOG/Epic/Amazon, and maybe some good ol' emulation.
On Arch I just installed the flatpak and didn't think about it, everything works.
2. The LTS releases are supported by Canonical for at least five years on the free tier, and up to fifteen years with paid support contracts.
It's still a pretty basic reason businesses might calculate that Ubuntu is a good fit.
When I interviewed with them a couple of years ago, I got the sense there was a lot broken with their culture. It was the best choice back when RedHat/CentOS stopped providing long term security updates, but now that Rocky Linux is around, it’s getting to be time to jump ship again.
> What is Ubuntu offering that Debian doesn't provide?
I have it right now at zero additional effort
And I am not letting LLM to send contents of my private files to LLM providers.
LLM can define backup job, write scripts and configs.
AI connects to blank system, builds out config and then creates scripts to run rsync.
The way some people fear AI is not realizing that it is doing the operations.
I still consider necessary to test and understand my backup system, so it will take nonzero time.
1. It uses much newer packages and people want shiny
2. It was marketed as one of the easiest to use linux distributions maybe 15yr ago or whatever, so a lot of new people and then tutorials went to it because newer software and features just worked.
3. What is keeping them on it now? Familiarity. Inertia.
Ubuntu kernels are not the one that Debian uses. The latest stable Debian is based on a 2 years old Kernel ( 6.12 ).
I had to go through the torturous path of Ubuntu -> Mint -> Mint Debian -> Debian. The last step was after I used a Debian live disk to do something and I could see that the stories were nonsense; just something that had adhered to the word Debian in my mind through repetition.
The two worst parts about it were 1) that I had long left Ubuntu on servers and had been using Debian there for years - I was just afraid of the desktop for some reason, and 2) that if I had just listened 15-20 years ago when people told me that FrankenDebians were nothing but problems, I would have never been caught in the net.
I've never been a fan of Ubuntu's business practices, but I'm just generally not into Debian derivatives anymore. If I were to leave Debian, it would be for an entirely different (and philosophically different) distro. I probably make an exception for Devuan, because it's only trying to change one thing (that I think of as the biggest threat to Linux, the final boss evil spawn of RedHat.) Devuan is an escape hatch for when the rugpull happens.
1. Hardware generally just works
2. Videos that use patented formats just play without fiddling
3. Proprietary closed-source software, if they even support Linux, usually releases Ubuntu binaries before anything else
Are those fatal flaws? No. But lots of people just don't want to deal with it. And there's a market for that.
I agree btw. But I've been using Linux since end of 90s (I barely made use of the 2.0 Linux kernel series). I quickly established on Debian in the Potato/Woody era. Debian, back then, was severely slow with new releases. So I ended up with Testing. Which got slower security updates than Unstable. Which sometimes broke (like any rolling release does). Back then Ubuntu got released (we talking '04 and '06). And I just sticked with Ubuntu. On servers, too. I endured it all, including the Amazon spyware, the ads in MOTD, and the switch to an inferior in-house software management for some package (which name we won't mention).
I know it seems innocent enough at first, setting up a system just the way you want it and learning a lot of Linux's userland internals while doing so, but before you know it you're installing esoteric window managers to get your theme just right and hunting for the perfect picture of an anime waifu to be your wallpaper, all while telling others that you "use Arch, btw". Always sad to see someone fall into that sort of life.
It just has package for nvidia drivers. Not sure if installer will install it automatically for you (I kinda... use my install for last 12 years, just upgrading it).
For me both with AMD and NVIDIA whole hardware driver story was "install it, it works"
At least Debian is on Wayland. Mint is on X11, which was causing black screen out of the box on my fairly typical PC.
It took Ubuntu something like 6 months to “backport” it. I’m not at all surprised they are taking forever to patch a severity 11 wormable exploit.
Mildly disappointed, but not surprised. Anyway, the ZFS thing (and, before that, widespread systemd-related breakage of an old LTS) are why I don’t trust them in prod anymore.
For 15 years or so, I used and recommended Ubuntu. But this is unacceptable and I won't be looking back.
(I think CVSS is a very poor metric in cases like these; I'm just explaining what I think Ubuntu's process/position is, not making excuses for them. My read is the 9.8 is probably too high but nevertheless more accurate in this case.)
So just as they made it popular, they can make it unpopular. People like me will simply post on our blogs and social media that they should not install Ubuntu. A typical Ubuntu user is not that high on the tech scale, and they listen to people like me for suggestions on which distro.
Cut the pipeline that feeds into it.
I wonder what is slower, these people pulling out a credit to pay something or ubuntu fixing their issue?
Maybe grab those first, though.
WTF Ubuntu! I'm not paying you for updates... so where the fuck are my updates bro?!