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Posted by speckx 1 hour ago

AI is destroying my CS degree(lordtoots.bearblog.dev)
91 points | 72 comments
tcdent 1 hour ago|
> It's been a huge learning curve.

I have been doing this professionally for over twenty years, and I still learn something every day. Over the past couple years, with AI augmentation, I learn even more, move faster and go deeper into the systems that I work on.

A CS degree was never going to provide you with all of the tools that you need for a successful career. It provided you with the basics to get your foot in the door.

AI is not replacing you or an education. AI is raising the bar of what you can comprehend and retain. From someone who is technically minded (and self-taught), all I have ever wanted is to keep learning.

pantsforbirds 49 minutes ago||
> AI is not replacing you or an education. AI is raising the bar of what you can comprehend and retain. From someone who is technically minded (and self-taught), all I have ever wanted is to keep learning.

AI is, in my opinion, absolutely murdering the junior dev market. It's now much more efficient to pay for a senior or staff engineer and set them up with a subscription to claude or codex. I think things are going to remain fine for senior+ engineers, but I genuinely don't know what advice I'd give to graduating devs at this time.

gim89 48 minutes ago|||
I agree with the caveat that a lot of "seniors" (in name only) will be discarded as well. Title inflation finally comes back go bite people.
slowin 45 minutes ago|||
Being a senior engineer doesn't really have anything to do with how long you've been developing. I've met amazing 21 year old developers who can out code people doing this for 20+ years in their sleep. I would say one of the reasons "seniors" are so much better with AI is because they have CS fundamentals. They know what to ask, they know systems design, they know what ACID is, they understand race conditions...

AI + CS allows you to develop with leverage I've never seen before.

joshheitzman 4 minutes ago|||
It's notable that you said "out code" not "out engineer".
tcdent 22 minutes ago||||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_unknown_unknowns
mistrial9 37 minutes ago|||
> who can out code people doing this for 20+ years

zero context for the work, so .. javascript?

goalieca 28 minutes ago||
Yeah. This is absolutely not the case when I worked on control systems, cryptography, or anything else that isn’t a CRUD saas.
JaumeGreen 1 hour ago|||
> A CS degree was never going to provide you with all of the tools that you need for a successful career. It provided you with the basics to get your foot in the door.

Yes and no.

I concur that it was never about the tools, although I've seen plenty of people advocating it had a more "practical" approach, using the same tools as companies use, and in the same way.

On the other hand it's not only about the basics.

In there you can go at depth in aspects that you will have to fight to use, like proper engineering practices, and might only be vital on the later stages of your career. And I feel that those learnings, plus the possibility of acquiring a breadth of knowledge that is hardly possible otherwise, is what gives CS graduates a leg up to other practitioners of the art of software development.

YMMV and a leg up can be easily overtaken, yes.

tartoran 58 minutes ago|||
I wonder how you'd do without your AI augmentation if you find yourself not being able to use it for whatever reason. I wonder what you retained when the AI is not working... or with a very expensive augmentation that wants more cut from your pay...
10111001 38 minutes ago||
> I wonder how you'd do without your AI augmentation if you find yourself not being able to use it for whatever reason. I wonder what you retained when the AI is not working... or with a very expensive augmentation that wants more cut from your pay...

Realistically, "AI is not working" is probably not a realistic scenario. He'll just stop working, just like if the network goes down.

The real risk of AI augmentation is to your value as an employee. Maybe the augmentation makes you feel and perform like Iron Man, but if the suit is doing the heavy lifting, and some cheaper guy could wear it and do pretty well, how are you going to keep that fat paycheck? It's not like any of us have tenure.

dieselgate 1 hour ago|||
Basically true for all degrees. I studied non-cs engineering before getting into coding and feel it often. At times have felt “should have stuck more with mech e where jobs are more stable and the tech moves slower” but know it’s kind of a fallacy.
yodsanklai 43 minutes ago|||
> AI is not replacing you or an education

I do learn every day thanks to AI, I agree with that part. But I'm increasingly convinced that AI is likely to replace either me or some of my teammates in the near future.

In the last year, half of my team has been laid off (or left) already and won't be replaced, and we don't see any drop in productivity and the tools are getting better by the day. We need experts to drive all this, but not as many people as before.

js8 20 minutes ago||
Companies that let SW engineers go because of productivity improvements are being stupid. These people will go and build new products, and will compete with your company.
bebrws 1 hour ago|||
Other than keeping up to date with how to best use AI/harnesses what else would be most important to stay on top of for retaining a software engineering job these days? Also AI seems generic to me. Could I bother you for a more detailed breakdown on the most important topics/skills you would consider necessary for a software engineer to be knowledgeable of?
azaras 20 minutes ago|||
> AI is not replacing you or an education.

AI is the tractor in The Grapes of Wrath, and you’re the one driving it.

webdood90 56 minutes ago|||
> all I have ever wanted is to keep learning

Good for you! Many people just want to be able to pay their bills.

Your post is entirely too dismissive of the chaos this new technology is introducing.

tcdent 28 minutes ago||
Harsh opinion: but if you just want to pay the bills this is not for you. Software engineering is a career, not a job.

Far too many people focus on passing an interview and then let legal protections keep their position, all while draining resources that could have been better allocated to someone who is actually passionate. They saw my generation do reasonably well and came for the paycheck. I got into this because there were very few people who could rise to the occasion of problem solving that the industry needed. I did not walk into the room with all of the skills or an idealized salary, I walked into the room with a mentality.

Perhaps the "chaos" being introduced is simply a long overdue market correction.

I'll let the downvotes tally how pervasive this is.

philipwhiuk 1 hour ago||
I don't think they're complaining about the learning curve.
tcdent 1 hour ago||
Didn't say that to refute it. I chose that to make the point that the degree is not the destination.
zamadatix 1 hour ago||
Iff your goal is using a degree as a stepping stone, which seems to be getting less popular these days.

For some, the degree is the destination and that's more than fine as well. It's a marker that says "others agree I learned x to a certain level, and I had fun doing it". This tends to overlap well with those who just liked university as an extra method of learning rather than going primarily to form part 1(a) of their career or something.

dahart 1 hour ago||
I’m hearing this more and more from both students and teachers. It seems like everyone in education is frustrated and can’t figure out how to use AI for education productively yet.

TBH I’m also thinking about how to use AI at work for learning. (My work environment is 100% all-in on AI.) Everyone can see and admit that AI coding is making us lazier and that it produces too much code to do old-style line by line reviews. Some people are using agent teams to churn out millions of lines of code where there’s zero hope of reviewing it. We don’t yet know how to keep quality high and complexity low while doing agent coding, we’re just having them write lots of tests and hoping that when things break they’re easy to fix. Agents should get better at broad architecture in the future, but they’re definitely not there yet.

> The amount of work involved has also tripled

This has to be one of the big ironies of using AI. I’ve heard this from other students too. The problem is that old-style assignments where the level of difficulty was hand-crafted is way way too easy for an LLM, therefore teachers need to crank the level of difficulty so the student has to actually spend some time on the assignment. But LLMs are getting better every month and the difficulty is so high that no students can possibly do the assignment by hand and now small errors in assignment design can lead to large errors in effort and time required.

visarga 57 minutes ago||
> We don’t yet know how to keep quality high and complexity low while doing agent coding, we’re just having them write lots of tests and hoping that when things break they’re easy to fix

Implement more versions with different languages, frameworks, libraries and AI agents. Then you can do differential execution for testing, which is easier than imagining testing scenarios from pure code. You can fuzz or use production data (shadow mode execution) to get notified early of divergences.

Keeping a population of diverse replicas might be the simplest way to derisk AI code. When 2 replicas diverge an agent can decide - was it a bug in one of them, or was the spec unclear? Either way, if you fix a bug or clarify the spec you come ahead.

A separate class of problems is related to intent divergence. For that my solution is to keep a full log of all user messages during the lifetime of the project. Even 10,000 messages collected over weeks and months can be read and summarized in a few minutes. That means you can check for intent divergence with agents, but you always start from the raw source (your human messages) not from intermediate summaries and diverged code.

Combining the 2 ideas would make each replica agent derive the user intent separately from the same log.

dahart 45 minutes ago||
This is a nice idea, but I’m in a big enough and low-level enough code base that using other languages or stacks isn’t very viable; we build the stack, so it’s software and hardware and compiler and driver. We do sometimes use multiple agents and adversarial review. The agents tend to come up with more complete corner-case testing than humans, the most common issue is that they don’t fully understand all design assumptions and parameters and they over-test for things that can’t happen using very complicated test setups, and they don’t test enough for simple mainline usage; they generally don’t know what the common workflows are. I had the same complaint about humans before LLMs too. :P We often try to be clever about testing and design all this logical coverage while ignoring the boring & easy stuff, we think like engineers and not users.
voakbasda 58 minutes ago||
I taught my Claude to teach me new skills, where I wanted to understand its work deeper. Specifically, I wanted to learn coccinelle semantic patching, so I told it to find potential places to apply it but withhold the solutions from me. Instead, it walks me through producing a patch myself.
dahart 37 minutes ago||
Yeah I’ve been meaning to try this more seriously, to have the agent be teacher and give me hints and force me to do the typing. It’s somewhat difficult to both find the time to do this at work, and also to have the self-control. I’ve done some half-hearted attempts, but when it gets to the repetitive and easy to understand parts, I start to slide back to letting the agent do it, and then sooner or later it’s handling trickier things again.

The other thing I want to try more at work is, rather than programmers at desks individually talking to agents, do pair or group programming with an agent in the room where the people discuss the design while the agents listens, asks questions, and writes the code live. We’ve had a few meetings where we do this, and it feels much better than individual vibe coding, because as a group we review the design as we go and prevent going down paths I might have gone down by myself. It combines the coding and review into a single session and ensures everyone present is comfortable with the design.

moomin 1 hour ago||
Answers so far are assuming that this is complaining that their traditional CS course is not that useful for getting a job anymore.

That’s not what it’s about. It’s actually from someone who genuinely wants to learn for the sake of learning who’s talking about how AI is creating havoc in her studies.

Aurornis 1 hour ago||
This is a blog post where it’s easy to see which commenters did not read the blog before commenting.

The real villain in this story is the teaching staff. They need to get their act together and stop using generative AI for courseloads.

In other words, they need to do their job. The parts about AI mandates changing every 3 months reeks of an overly bureaucratic, admin-heavy structure where the students’ learning is a lower priority being performative about AI for your boss.

dieortin 48 minutes ago||
You don’t know what pressures the teaching staff is under.
hbn 39 minutes ago||
I would argue the job thing is more at risk and opportunity for learning is at an all time high. You've got 24/7 access to a very skilled personal tutor.

AI can teach you, you just have to put the effort in to tell it to teach you. In some contexts, I might want it to fire off a utility bash script and I have no interest in learning bash so I just run it and don't worry too much about the implementation. But if I'm getting it to help me write Java code for work, I review the output and ask it about parts that I don't understand. And it teaches me way better than the old way of reading dry/bad documentation.

It's what you make of it.

simonw 36 minutes ago||
I don't envy educators right now.

AI clearly means you need to change how you teach and evaluate students. We are only a few years in though, and it's still extremely unclear what effective teaching with these tools looks like.

The worst part is that the evaluation loop is measured in multiple years! If you start trying some new education mechanism today you won't get a robust idea of how well it works until your current cohort graduate in 3-6 years time.

Students effectively all become guinea pigs for untested new ways of learning and teaching.

raegis 5 minutes ago|
> I don't envy educators right now.

I think we have a solution for the evaluation part: the overwhelming majority of a student's grade is computed from in-person assessments only. Some instructors allow repeats on exams as well.

The teaching part is as hard, but it has always been hard. The students you get one year are completely different the next year, for various reasons. As long as you have competent administrators, all is good--this is what we sign up for.

laserbeam 1 hour ago||
Hey.

First off, congrats on spending time doing side projects in OpenProcessing. Keep working on projects that keep you motivated and keep you learning.

We've been there, lost in our learning paths. Even before AI there were times when we were overwhelmed with our CS journey. You'll overcome, don't you worry about that.

The CS degree was never the end of the learning journey. It was always _what you put into it_. You'll learn what you practice, and uni just happens to be a good place to practice things. Whether that's optimizing AI harnesses, understanding how CPU caches work, crunching pixels on a GPU or the principles of distributed computing... it will all make you a better thinker and good at what you do one day.

Stay curious.

sh-run 1 hour ago||
While AI is writing much much more of my code these days, I still need to be able to speak intelligently about what I am building, why I chose a given design and the tradeoffs between alternatives. When fixing things, it's still important to understand what broke and why. I don't think that will ever change in any organization that operates in high compliance environments or cares about delivering high quality products.

I don't think programming becoming 'easier' has make understanding programs any easier or less important. Even if all of the above goes away, I think computer science has taught me a lot about how to think about problems.

mtt64 15 minutes ago|
[flagged]
nphardon 14 minutes ago||
Great post. The writing is on the wall, CS is dead, you need to pivot. The CS career that you set out for does not exist anymore (the one that involved thinking for yourself to struggle and solve problems); the template you followed is wrong now. You're staring right at it. You can still learn CS from books, but now's the time to bail on your CS degree and start a company if you want to stay in tech, or pivot out completely.
andai 35 minutes ago||
> Coursework design has gone down the toilet. I mean, it was never perfect to begin with.

At my uni they had us doing assignments in assembly on day one, before anything was actually taught. The lab handbook said "your first year programing courses will serve you well." lol. Apparently it used to be a 2nd year course and they just moved it to the first semester of the first year unmodified, for no apparent reason.

Had a similar experience at other universities and other courses. This was in the Netherlands so maybe it's different in other countries but my experience is that it functions mostly as a filter for people who already know the material rather than actually teaching you anything.

Over half of people fail the first year (and are banned from repeating it, for 5 years), which is considered normal and acceptable. So it's more of a selection mechanism than anything else.

So I said to a friend who's choosing a university right now, "just don't expect them to actually teach you anything", which is a pretty sad thing to say for an educational institution.

Despite the massive suck all around, I very much like the idea of university, and did enjoy many aspects of my time there, especially the projects. (And I've followed some lectures from other universities on YouTube, where I experienced actual learning, and -- god forbid -- actual joy!)

stuartjohnson12 1 hour ago||
Being able to write a coherent critique that stays practical and doesn't stray into bombastic moralisation or interpersonal frustration is a rare skill that speaks well to your communication skill and taste. I think you will do just fine in a world of AI in engineering.
camcil 34 minutes ago|
Regardless of the fantasy sold about what a university degree entails, it's ultimately designed to get your foot in the door, and maybe even prepare you at a very basic level for navigating the professional world. It sounds like it is certainly doing the latter. Especially with a rapidly evolving field such as CS, I would say it was the case for all of us regardless of the phase that whatever technology we were using in the coursework was at best going to be different by the time we got into the field, and at worst (and more likely) very outdated as it is taught at the time of learning it.

It is now, and always has been IMO, up to the individual whether or not they want to learn deeply the material being presented, or just do what is necessary to get the grade as a means to an end. In the past, accidently learning something deeply was a little more likely than having the answers at our fingertips via AI, but the possibility is still there depending on how you use the tool.

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