Top
Best
New

Posted by jamesjyu 1 day ago

How accurately did science fiction stories predict AI?(jamesyu.org)
39 points | 87 comments
pugio 1 day ago|
I have a hard time suspending disbelief with sci-fi these days. It's really hard to imagine any believable future along current trend lines; either you contrive a reason why AI didn't become a thing (1), or you have to explain why humans are doing anything - piloting a starship, science, exploration, etc. (2)

(1) Butlerian Jihad. Sanderson's Skyward at least had a reason.

(2) Banks's Culture had a possible future. I'm sure there are others, but not many.

I think about this a lot, and while I have tons of near future sci-fi ideas (which probably would have seemed very far future, 10-20, years ago), I just can't conceive of anything much farther out. I guess that's why they call it the "singularity".

jltsiren 1 day ago||
You just have to drop the assumption that sci-fi stories take place in the future, even if they explicitly say so. They happen in fictional universes that are similar to ours in some ways and different in others.

The umbrella term is speculative fiction. The author starts by assuming that the world works in certain ways, and then tries to figure out the consequences.

defrost 1 day ago|||
> or you have to explain why humans are doing anything

Jack Williamson made a case for humans resisting doing nothing: With Folded Hands ... (1947) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Folded_Hands_...

peddling-brink 1 day ago|||
Just re read this. Great book. Frighteningly prescient.
defrost 1 day ago||
Humanity literally hugged to death and going gentle into that good night is arguably more likely and more frightening than berserker terminators.
unsnap_biceps 1 day ago||
Futurama had a propaganda film entitled I Dated a Robot in an episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrrADTN-dvg
joquarky 1 day ago|||
I wonder if this novel had any influence on the writers of Pluribus.
defrost 21 hours ago||
That's an interesting call - had they read this nearly 80 year old novella / novel pair then I could certainly see that.
modeless 1 day ago|||
One short story worth reading, not on this list, is Manna[1] by Marshall Brain. It proposes two different futures that both seem at least possible as outcomes in a future with advanced AI.

[1] https://james.darpinian.com/manna

joquarky 1 day ago||
The end is a bit over the top, but the first half reads like current news.
thrw045 1 day ago|||
While these are not far future ideas they were pretty good:

1) Masters of Science Fiction tv series from 2007 Episode 5 "Little Brother" - A person "jailbreaks" the judge who is sentencing him.

2) Terminator 3 rise of the machines - in the beginning they talk about allowing Skynet access to their military systems and so on to eliminate a virus, and they have no idea how it will react. Echoes a little bit where we are now.

These aren't perfect of course but kind of interesting to see at present day

m4xp 1 day ago||
I find battlestar galactica to be quite on point, real Ai (llm is not) will eventually either be banned or it will grow beyond humans and do its own thing.
hardbass 21 hours ago|||
AI accelerated science might be the only way or fastest way to reach the stars. In a way its good to cull out the low motivation people, if I had the tech to, why wouldn't I pilot a starship and explore the stars? It doesn't matter to me if others are also doing it. Luddism will be the death of civilization.
whoanoway 20 hours ago||
[dead]
jasonjei 1 day ago|||
I think for me the biggest problem is what we understand about physics and FTL and causality. For FTL to happen, I can’t seem to get around the fact that to an observer a ball is thrown before it actually is thrown. So it’s very difficult for me to do sci-fi…
Dylan16807 1 day ago|||
To get problems, you need to have two FTL ships that are in very different reference frames interact in specific ways. There's plenty of ways to avoid that without sacrificing FTL.
therealpygon 1 day ago|||
What? That isn’t at all what happens and that fundamental misunderstanding is probably why you have trouble. You cannot, ever, “see” something happen before it happens. An observer “sees” it delayed, just like when you see lightning but hear thunder on a delay. The thunder didn’t happen later when you heard it, and you cannot hear the thunder before lightning. You could, however, fly faster than the thunder and hear it twice, just like if you could fly faster than the light, you could see the lightning twice. In neither case can you see the lightning before happens, or hear the thunder before the lightning.
Animats 1 day ago|||
As to prediction, there were some accurate early hits. A Logic Named Joe nailed the search engine with a chatbot front end, and pointed out the problems of systems smart enough to tell people in detail how to do bad stuff.

Much early SF thinking was that AIs would be logical. That's what I was taught, going through Stanford back when the logicians were in charge. They were trying to hammer the real world into predicate calculus. That turned out to be totally wrong.

Almost everybody in SF underestimated the difficulty of robot unstructured manipulation. So did people in AI. They still do. Most SF assumed that robots would be able to do most eye/hand tasks before they could talk. No. Still unsolved. LLMs don't seem to help all that much. Written language doesn't have much info on grasping, and watching without doing is only marginally helpful.

Asimov's robot novels were all about alignment, and why alignment is hard. That was prophetic.

Banks' Culture novels are great, but they're for a future that has a lot of new physics.

Now what? What we seem to be headed for in the near term is the fast automation of most white collar work, but not blue collar work. SF foresaw that future a few times. One example is the Rosinante Trilogy from 1981, where there's a boss of an orbital space colony, an AI as middle management, and union labor doing the real work. That's a hard SF view. There's How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe, from 2010, where the protagonist's supervisor is "Microsoft Middle Manager 2.0 with passive-aggressive set to low." It's a minor part of the comedic plot there. And, of course, there's Manna, from 2003, which is looking all too likely.

NitpickLawyer 1 day ago|||
Have you read the Bobiverse series? It goes into some of these themes, and explores AI, post humanity and so on.
gpderetta 1 day ago|||
A lot of post-cyberpunk hard sci-fi is about augmented posthumans mostly for this reason.
nyc_data_geek 1 day ago|||
Give Accelerando by Charles Stross a read. The future isn't over yet.
brotchie 1 day ago||
Yeah Accelerando is by far the most accurate at the "gestalt" of how AI progress is actually feeling, and how ridiculous the future is likely going to be.

Clawbook felt very "Accelerando," personal agents are kind of like Manfred's exo-cortex (AR still has a bit to go). Aineko becoming some ASI that masks its intelligence isn't that far off the mark.

The whole "AI evolves Economics 2.0 which is only understandable by humans if they eliminate the aspect of themselves that makes them human in the first place."

A lot of sci-fi novels kind of give a sanitized, streamlined, view of AI. Accelerando is really the only novel that captures what the chaos and future shock of a growing singularity feels like to be in.

a_bonobo 1 day ago|||
I think you suffer from Fisher's 'capitalist realism':

>the widespread sense that not only is capitalism the only viable political and economic system, but also that it is now impossible even to imagine a coherent alternative to it.

Star Trek and Banks' are post-capitalist futures.

pugio 1 day ago|||
I'm saying that I haven't really seen (almost) anybody present a coherent future. Not just me.

Star Trek, as much as I love it, does not really grapple with AI heavily, and I already mentioned Banks.

gowld 1 day ago|||
Star Trek is easy to "imagine", but also easy to invalidate.

The only slightly fleshed out bit of Star Trek is the military, not the planetary society.

0xDEAFBEAD 1 day ago||
The task of coming up with compelling post-singularity sci-fi is almost the same as the task of ensuring that life after the singularity is actually interesting.

In both cases the question is the same: How to create a compelling plot, either for a story or for your life, in a world where human mental abilities are vastly inferior to those of AI?

From a pessimistic perspective, you could think of reasons why a misaligned AI keeps humans alive. Does it simply enslave humans and use us for our fine-manipulation capabilities until it can get proper robotics up and running? Does it want to observe us scientifically? Does it want to use captive humans as bargaining chips with other civilizations as it expands through the galaxy? Or does it have some sort of quasi-religious respect for humans, e.g. reasoning that keeping us on a reservation of some kind reduces the risk that a simulator-god pulls the plug on the universe?

From an optimistic perspective, what sort of conflicts would exist in a utopia? Stories need conflict to be interesting. And IRL, even if humans are living in relative utopia, they'll still get stir-crazy and create conflict. Even in countries that are very wealthy by global or historical standards, political competition can still be quite bitter, for example. How would a superintelligent AI manage this?

I'm reminded of the stories I read set in Karl Schroeder's Virga universe as a kid. All the characters and plot exist inside a planet-sized balloon filled with gas. But it takes a while for the reader to figure this out, because most of the setting is focused on the details: rotating habitats, air transport, artificial mini-suns, etc.

In the same way, good post-singularity fiction might very well put the AI deep in the background.

Imagine, for example, a story about some friends surviving, exploring, and doing battle in an ancient ruin full of puzzles. Only gradually do you realize that the ancient ruin was designed as a moon-sized escape room by a superintelligent AI. The moon-sized escape room already has centuries of lore, and the escape record to beat is measured in years or decades. But because the escape room "rules of engagement" are so well-defined, the players are deeply immersed and barely think about the fact that the moon is AI-designed. Perhaps some high-tech psychoactive drug or brain implant could play a role in facilitating suspension of disbelief.

Just like Virga, this deep background only gets revealed when the reader is thoroughly invested in the story, and overall is not treated as especially important. The story could be a philosophical meditation on the long-term future of AI-designed art and entertainment. See if you can steelman the pro-AI-art position.

10111001 1 day ago|||
> From a pessimistic perspective, you could think of reasons why a misaligned AI keeps humans alive. Does it simply enslave humans and use us for our fine-manipulation capabilities until it can get proper robotics up and running? Does it want to observe us scientifically? Does it want to use captive humans as bargaining chips with other civilizations as it expands through the galaxy? Or does it have some sort of quasi-religious respect for humans, e.g. reasoning that keeping us on a reservation of some kind reduces the risk that a simulator-god pulls the plug on the universe?

Or another: it just ignores us, but keeps the good resources to itself. There's still humanity, but it's brutish and primitive, regressed to the stone age, and pushed to the margins. Basically feral animals. They know about the AI's works, but don't understand them. The smart ones stay away out of fear, the dumb ones go where they're not wanted and get killed by pest control.

There are so many bad ends to this, and not many plausible good ones. But of course we have no choice but to race forward, off the cliff. After all, we can't let China be the ones that push humanity off it first!

hardbass 20 hours ago||
The fact that current AI systems manage to not wholly offend broadly 8 billion people of whom the majority believe in imaginary fairy tales and a big percentage of that kill each other for these fairy tales tells me AI can already be a far better steward of humans than other humans. You are trying to project imaginary stories from science fiction to real life. Stories are fun, but they are not real.
hardbass 20 hours ago|||
>And IRL, even if humans are living in relative utopia, they'll still get stir-crazy and create conflict. Even in countries that are very wealthy by global or historical standards, political competition can still be quite bitter, for example. How would a superintelligent AI manage this?

Correct, I believe people should be given a dose of real fucking pain. Otherwise they start inventing fake self victimizations.

andrewflnr 1 day ago||
Not mentioning Peter Watts here is criminal, because he came unnervingly close to nailing it. The voice of Rorschach in Blindsight is very similar to early LLMs. And, well, hopefully the dead internet of Starfish doesn't turn out to be a prophecy but I'm getting nervous.
Jordan-117 1 day ago|
Not just the voice, but the underlying process. Rorschach passively absorbed decades of human broadcasts and built up a language model that was eerily fluent despite literally not understanding what it was saying. The conversation with the "head cheese" neural network in Starfish hits a lot of the same notes (and even features a great example of misalignment that threatens humanity).

Crazy he wrote these in the 2000s.

joegibbs 1 day ago||
AI from the past seems more like it’s based on the computers of the time - the AIs seem to be very logical, never make mistakes and act like they’re an expertly programmed bunch of switch statements and ifs. Whereas modern AI is based on human text and so the models have human biases and do things like swear in their chain-of-thought and sometimes make errors for no reason at all.
boznz 1 day ago||
Always good to have a Mr Spock type character in a book, whatever form they take.
andai 1 day ago||
People call it slop, but that's what we raised it on. Common Crawl is >99% slop.

(I read some bits and pieces, would not recommend!)

jasonjei 1 day ago||
Many sci-fi writers really dislike LLM for various reasons, whether it is the generative works they produce, or for allegations of copyright infringement due to LLM training on their works. Some have taken such a negative attitude towards LLM that they actively refuse to use Claude or GPT even for coding projects. John Scalzi and Catherine Asaro come to mind boycotting any LLM use…
raincole 1 day ago||
Many <s>sci-fi</s> writers really dislike LLM.
joquarky 1 day ago|||
As my parents liked to say at the dinner table when I was a picky eater, "You don't like it? Great, then that's more for us".
TMWNN 1 day ago|||
Charlie Stross dismissing AI as "just spicy autocomplete on steroids" three months ago <https://np.reddit.com/r/accelerate/comments/1vbtdga/what_is_...>, for example
Razengan 1 day ago||
> Many...

Weasel words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Clar...

cymor 16 hours ago||
One of my favorites that I still think about is The Wedding Album by David Marusek[1]. In the short story, agents are brain copies that are used to do anything and everything, and then thrown away. Eventually, they're given rights, and society falls apart for a while and then rebuilds better.

[1] https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?84509

frobisher 21 hours ago||
Nothing does human like humans do.

We are organic and so survive on organics well; we are low power; and myriad other evolved traits that put us in equilibrium with the surrounding Earthly environment.

From a dynamical systems perspective, we operate in a niche. Sure, maybe there are still some tweaks left. But machines approximating that niche sufficiently will just be human in the end.

The real question is why we are adamant about being non-humman, so to speak. Therein lies the tautology that AI will exceed us in non-human areas. Of course it will.

seanmcdirmid 1 day ago||
I’ve been thinking about this for awhile now, a complete miss: Sci-fi author and computer scientist Vernor Vinge popularized the term programmer-archaeologist in his 1999 science fiction novel A Deepness in the Sky

The premise is that AI never came around and we were left scavenging code since that was more efficient than writing new code. But with LLMs, it’s much easier to write new than to scavenge.

AnneTrotter 1 day ago|
I never did read his stuff. But aren't libraries effectively this? Not scavenged, but it is more efficient to write small chunks of reusable code and reutilize them everywhere than to constantly write new code
seanmcdirmid 1 day ago||
This the libraries are easy to find, reason about, and are easily adapted to your use case, yes. But the SciFi novel put this process more as arduous process because there was just so much code to sift through.
NitpickLawyer 1 day ago||
I'm glad to see Aurora (by KSR) up there. It's a great sci-fi story overall, but for this topic the "waking up" of the AI and the entire evolution as we get to know it, and hear its voice is absolutely great. Highly recommend it, if you haven't read it.
cyberax 1 day ago|
Aurora? Great? No, it's really not. Utterly unrealistic, from both physical and just "they can't be THAT dumb" standpoints. All to push the point that the Earth is a starship.

A much more realistic example of AI and starflight: good old Rocheworld by Robert Forward.

nake89 1 day ago||
I think Avogadro Corp deserves a higher score on purely a vibes level. when LLMs first came out I just immediately thought of “elope” the AI in Avogadro Corp which was basically a text generator.
paul_h 1 day ago|
Person of Interest missing. Watching again right now - awesome. Listed as science fiction for series 1 ... then as drama by series 5. Well, so it's said.
joquarky 1 day ago|
Is it just my narrow selection of experience, or do all long-running sci-fi series eventually devolve to focus on ordinary interpersonal drama over focusing on exploring speculative scenarios?
andrewflnr 6 hours ago||
It sure happens a lot. I got tired of the Expanse when it turned into just being geopolitics in space. Still good in it's own way, just not what I'm there for.

I guess Revelation Space stays speculative. It just kinda gets worse after a while. It doesn't have a lot of character continuity between books, which might help with leaving the stage open for wacky scifi concepts. (A lot of the books are really good, but Redemption Ark was meh and I found Absolution Gap disappointing.)

More comments...