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Posted by p4bl0 5 hours ago

.name Grandfathered(neil.fraser.name)
548 points | 114 comments
giancarlostoro 4 hours ago|
> After a long and expensive battle, news just dropped that Verisign is retracting its plan to terminate 22,000 domain names and email redirects. Although they will be closing new registrations for 3rd-level .name domains, all existing domains (including this website) and email redirects will remain indefinitely.

This was what I figured SHOULD happen when they did this. Allow existing customers to keep renewing, but nobody new allowed, if a tld frees up over time, reclaim it completely and sell it off.

What they were proposing should really be illegal...

Spivak 3 hours ago||
For it to be illegal I think we would have to have much stronger digital ownership laws. I would certainly support them. But for now a domain you "own" is just an entry in someone else's ledger and control is only enforced by contract for big players willing to pay.
schoen 3 hours ago|||
There is a Ninth Circuit decision that domain names are a form of property

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremen_v._Cohen

but it's tricky because the domain name registries and registrars have a kind of thicket of contracts nowadays that subordinates registrants' property interests to other rules and considerations. So I don't think a court would think that a modern-day domain name registrant has property rights in a domain name that supersede all of those contractual terms.

Edit: my recollection is that Kremen v. Cohen interpreted the legal defaults that applied because Kremen registered the domain name in an era when Network Solutions didn't require registrants to agree to a contract that limited Network Solutions's liability and gave it various explicit rights and powers.

I'm not a huge ICANN expert, but I think ICANN broadly thinks the status quo is preferable to one in which registrants had stronger, less equivocal property interests in names.

otterley 2 hours ago||
The Wikipedia summary of the case suggests that the ruling was much more than it was. Courts tend to rule on narrow issues, as it did here.

The question before the Court was not whether a domain name is a form of property. Both parties agreed that a domain name is a form of property; that wasn't in dispute. The Court did affirm their shared position in black letter law, though.

Rather, the question before the Court was whether, as intangible property, a tort of conversion claim relating to the domain name could be made under California law. Previously, cases disagreed as to whether it could be recognized. The Court found that it could be.

falcor84 2 hours ago||||
Agreed, but I just wanted to say that essentially every single thing anyone owns is, and has been from the invention of tally marks on clay tablets, an entry in someone's ledger.
stevage 28 minutes ago||
Of all the thousands of things I own, as far as I know, only my car and my house exist in anyone else's ledger as belonging to me. Am I missing something?
Calazon 2 minutes ago||
The money in your bank account?
mzajc 3 hours ago|||
These domains wouldn't be worth a penny if they came with a disclaimer that they can be deregistered or even taken over at any point. With a bit of luck, somebody could snatch popular last name domains and set up a catch-all mailserver.
not2b 1 hour ago|||
People persist in "buying" digital movies e-books, and games despite the fact that they can disappear at any point, without warning, because the seller's license expired or they just feel like discontinuing the service.
schoen 3 hours ago|||
They do have such a limitation, because of things like UDRP. It's just that there are maybe some forms of restriction on the processes by which domain names can be involuntarily transferred or seized. But it's a real possibility!
DANmode 2 hours ago|||
> What they were proposing should really be illegal...

Where?

gsich 2 hours ago||
Everywhere.
DANmode 1 hour ago||
Super reasonable proposal.
echelon 3 hours ago||
Now a "{first}.{second}.name" will be really awesome to own.

This is essentially premium real estate now. For us nerds, anyway.

Great job Neil and gang!

Macha 2 hours ago|||
Well anyone can buy a second.name if second isn't already registered, and then set up their own first. subdomain, so most visitors aren't going to know the difference in between grandfathered in first.second.name sites and people who just bought second level domains and created their own subdomain.
jareklupinski 2 hours ago|||
if you're lucky, you can do something like first.sec.ond

works for many polish people who own ski resorts :)

jayknight 1 hour ago||
I remember when delicious.com was just del.icio.us. I miss that site.
hackboyfly 31 minutes ago||
My dyslexia would go bonkers.
nticompass 3 hours ago||
WHAT‽ I let my "first.last.name" registration expire because of the impending shutdown!

I did notice that my domain kept working past the supposed shutdown date, but I let the domain registration expire.

I'm so mad now! I assume there is no way to get my domain/email forwarding back :(

I suppose I could try to ask the registrar, but I highly doubt they can do anything...

(Edit: I'm not actually mad, but it was annoying to have to move accounts from my first@last.name email to another one)

mzajc 3 hours ago||
I don't know about .name specifically, but some registries have a grace period (or multiple) after which you can still renew it. It's worth checking if you're within the time limit.
nticompass 3 hours ago||
That's my plan. If they can help then cool, otherwise it's not really a big deal.
mixdup 2 hours ago|||
They haven't actually stopped taking third level registrations, so get in there before the revised proposal gets submitted approved and implemented
Panda4 48 minutes ago||
I think they did. I tried to register one just now and couldn't
troyrollo 10 minutes ago||
This is a registrar issue not a registry issue. There are registrars still allowing registration of .name domains as well as transfers in.
edoceo 3 hours ago|||
First time ive seen ! and ? overlaid. Neat.
chch 3 hours ago|||
For future reference, ‽ is called an interrobang!

And to show off another fun character, for languages like Spanish that start a question with an inverted question mark, there's also ⸘, the inverted interrobang.

Though I find the name some people call it, gnaborretni (interrobang backwards), much sillier.

serchinastico 3 hours ago||
Interesting! If we were to follow Spanish to name the inverted interrobang it'd be opening (and closing) interrobangs, not gnaborretni, just as we don't have nóicagorretni nor nóicamalcxe :)
murphyslaw 1 hour ago||
I assume you meant sgnaborretni?
BadBadJellyBean 3 hours ago|||
It's called an interrobang. Never really took off but still available in unicode.
_blackhawk_ 3 hours ago|||
Definitely email the registrar. Maybe it might work?
nticompass 3 hours ago||
Worth a shot.
BoxOfRain 3 hours ago||
While it won't lessen your frustration, I applaud your use of the interrobang. That punctuation mark needs wider use.
nticompass 3 hours ago|||
I'm not really frustrated, but it is annoying that I had to migrate accounts and stuff, but whatever.

And yes, I love the interrobang! Ever since I mapped scroll lock to "compose" on my keyboard, I've had fun typing all sorts of characters :)

lutoma 2 hours ago||||
I have an auto substitution set up in iOS to automatically replace ?! with ‽ (Same for ellipsis, ... to …)
oneeyedpigeon 2 hours ago||
And, presumably, "!?"?
Spivak 3 hours ago|||
It's a neat little mark but I don't think it has much of a chance being widespread because I think ?! has already won in real usage and doesn't have the fine detail problem. I think it has a better chance of becoming an official grammatical digraph than the merged mark.
sillysaurusx 3 hours ago|||
Is there an overlaid ?? and !! mark? (For Chess.)
zimpenfish 4 minutes ago|||
There's DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK[0] and also DOUBLE QUESTION MARK[1] if those will do.

[0] https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/203c/index.htm

[1] https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2047/index.htm

adrian_b 2 hours ago|||
Besides interrobang, Unicode includes all 4 possible sequences of 2 "?" and "!".

  203C;DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK;Po;0;ON;<compat> 0021 0021;;;;N;;;;;
  203D;INTERROBANG;Po;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;
  2047;DOUBLE QUESTION MARK;Po;0;ON;<compat> 003F 003F;;;;N;;;;;
  2048;QUESTION EXCLAMATION MARK;Po;0;ON;<compat> 003F 0021;;;;N;;;;;
  2049;EXCLAMATION QUESTION MARK;Po;0;ON;<compat> 0021 003F;;;;N;;;;;
reaperducer 2 hours ago||||
I don't think it has much of a chance being widespread

I first heard of it back when Usenet was still the hotness.

Apparently it's been around for close to a century, so if it hasn't caught on widely by now, you're probably right.

ahnick 20 minutes ago||
> I first heard of it back when Usenet was still the hotness.

This is the first (and probably last) time that I will ever see the words "Usenet" and "hotness" in the same sentence.

Well done, sir.

saalweachter 1 hour ago|||
It lost when computers overtook typewriters.

On a typewriter, you could type one punctuation mark, backspace, and then type another.

Even once computers added the interrobang to Unicode (or older systems), you either need to type in a numeric code, use a secret bucky bit, or select it from a graphical UI, none of which is worth it for more than the odd weirdo with a whimsical streak.

soupbowl 1 hour ago||
It is best to stick to the main top level domains. I bought into multiple 'new' domains and most of them caused me issues. A few of them jacked up their prices like crazy compared to when I first bought them. They can also be difficult to move between providers.

Unfortunately I am stuck in commitments on a few of these domains and just had to eat the cost increases, the rest I moved to .com/.net.

.consulting was the worst offender.

pmdr 27 minutes ago|
> It is best to stick to the main top level domains.

Yes, I view most 'new' TLDs as scams. They lure you in with a low price, a rather pricey renewal and then price hike after price hike down the line. They also charge a premium for most dictionary words right from the start.

mlefer 1 hour ago||
I wonder why couldn't Verisign just grant most people the second level domains here. I imagine there aren't too many people holding onto 3rd level .name domains here and the set of people holding onto 3rd level domains that share a second level domain with someone else is probably very small, a few hundred at most.

For all the ones holding exclusive second level domains, just give them the second level domain. For all the ones holding shared second levels, offer a buyout and/or allow parties to negotiate with each other on a shared ownership structure of the second level.

toast0 31 minutes ago|
I suspect for most of the second level domains, there's only one registrant of a third level domain.

However, I also suspect that for most of the third level domains, they're on a second level domain with multiple registrants. And several of those shared second level domains will have a lot of registrants. If the registrants are in different jurisdictions, it becomes a pretty nasty process to develop international consensus, vs just keeping the status quo going (which IMHO, can't be that hard).

Still, it makes sense to have a process to normalize the single registrant second level domains, because less work.

troyrollo 2 minutes ago||
22,000 third levels total, spread across about 12,000 second levels, about 10,000 of which have only one third level. Of the approximately 2,000 with multiples, many have all of the third level registrants being apparently close relatives.

That leaves quite a few with lots of unrelated registrants, mostly in Japan (tanaka and suzuki being the biggest).

slow_typist 51 minutes ago||
Nicely done. (I moved a few family email accounts from .name to .net years ago because it was a much cheaper option and the .name TLD was still so uncommon in our bubbles it led to questions when they gave their email addresses to someone else.)
derhuerst 4 hours ago||
previous discussion on the predecessor post, 69 days ago, 547 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49550772
kwanbix 4 hours ago||
Why would they even want to close it? It is probably close to 0 cost tot hem. Or am I wrong?
lambda 4 hours ago||
It works differently than pretty much every other TLD, which means it's different code paths to support.

Many registrars don't support the unique 3rd level domain setup for .name, so it can be hard to find registrars that properly support it.

There's also an associate email redirect service, which is unique to .name and probably costs money to run and maintain.

It's probably easier to support, and more valuable to sell second level .name domains.

Pretty terrible that they were considering just dropping tens of thousands of customer registrations however.

charcircuit 1 hour ago|||
How is it different than others like .co.jp or .ne.jp?
lambda 1 hour ago||
Those ones have a fixed list of second level domains.

.name was something where you could register a two part domain, picking both the third and second level, to represent your first and last name.

seattle_spring 2 hours ago|||
> It works differently than pretty much every other TLD, which means it's different code paths to support.

but I was told that AI has made code obsolete and free

swiftcoder 3 hours ago|||
It has weird interactions with some modern browser features. For example domain isolation doesn't apply between subdomains of the same TLD, so john.smith.name and drew.smith.name don't get isolation in naive implementations.
OkayPhysicist 1 hour ago|||
The real problem is that we'd have to add a wildcard to the public suffix list. That's it.

The public suffix list is the big list of all the URL suffixes that should not imply shared ownership of all their subdomains. For example the line

com

says "XYZ.com" and "ABC.com" should not be assumed to be controlled by the same entity.

Problem is, all 1st level domains registered to the .name TLD should be added to the list, and that's a lot of domains. The correct answer, IMO, would be to add a wildcard

*.name

but that would involve updating all the code that relies on the public suffix list to support said wildcard.

toast0 27 minutes ago||
*.name isn't a good solution either, because the vast majority of registrations are at the second level.

If you want to do it properly, you really do need to include all of the second level domains that have more than one third level registrant. And update that periodically as domains expire... there might be three registrants under .example.name today, but if they all (or all but one) stop paying, example.name is no longer a public suffix and it should be removed.

OkayPhysicist 17 minutes ago||
Having "no cookies shared between subdomains" as a restriction on the entire TLD isn't completely beyond the pale. There are other TLDs that have restrictions, like HTTPS being required for .dev
tylergetsay 3 hours ago|||
wouldn't that be a problem with a lot of other domains? like locality domains
timeinput 3 hours ago|||
It definitely is. <ingress>.k8s.<mydns>.com regularly confuses what password I want to use if I have different authentication per ingress. More commonly if I run something else at <name>.<mydns>.com firefox and chrome are both happy to offer up my password for <other service>.<mydns>.com.

Closed. Wont fix.

OkayPhysicist 1 hour ago||||
We solve that problem with the public suffix list. The problem is there's a lot of .name domains, each of which would need to be added to the list.
mixdup 2 hours ago|||
yes, but other locality domains are fairly static and well-known

.co.uk wouldn't have the same problem because everyone knows that combo is a TLD in and of itself. with a seemingly infinite possible combinations of blah.name that could be a TLD itself, or, might just be a subdomain of .name, it gets really weird

toast0 18 minutes ago||
> with a seemingly infinite possible combinations

Verisign claimed approximately 22,000 third level domains [1] in July 2026. I don't see an estimate of the number of shared second level domains, but it's finite. The current public suffix list includes 10414 names [2]; so at maximum, the list would approximately triple in size --- not ideal, but feasible.

[1] https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/consensus-policies/fessen...

[2] including some with wildcards, re: your other post

clickety_clack 4 hours ago|||
My thoughts also, but maybe they can make more from a few sites like baby.name than they can from personal domains.
nikanj 56 minutes ago||
There would be great money to be made if you could auction off domain.name, instead of being stuck just getting $20 per year because some geezer registered his.domain.name.
damoe 1 hour ago||
A few years ago I was able to register <first name>.<last name> I was so excited until I realized how potentially precarious the domain was. My established domain is <first><last>.<forever tdl>. I'm not too worried about it having a problem (although as some have mentioned here I wish we had more rights, as individuals, to this IP). So I keep the new domain more as a personal toy...
calebio 18 minutes ago||
Kind of off-topic, but I wonder what will happen to .io in the end.
Xirdus 6 minutes ago|
Most likely nothing. .su was kept around and it was million times smaller than .io is now.
hoppp 6 minutes ago|
Congrats!!
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