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Posted by dvaplima 5 hours ago

Gemini 4 Hydrogen(blog.google)
432 points | 282 commentspage 2
JV00 5 hours ago|
Personally I found my usage of llms bimodal, I only have uses for the top frontier models (for research and development) or for the cheapest and fastest ones (to use in production for consolidated, simple flows). I am curious what people find the mid tier models useful for.
XCSme 5 hours ago||
I feel like people use medium models thinking they are saving money, but in the end, it ends up wasting more time and tokens theough the increased rate of issues/bugs.

If the highest tier model makes even one or two fewer mistakes that require human intervantion, that almost makes it a no-brainer choice for production.

spike021 5 hours ago|||
I've been doing some research lately on my own (aside from the major benchmarking going on) and I've definitely found cases where medium models do much poorly and cost more than the higher models. But on the other hand, if I can give the medium models certain skills or other resources to complete a task then they perform better in cost than the higher model (which, given the same resources, sometimes gets more confused than the medium does).

At least for my use case of evaluations of a set of features.

XCSme 4 hours ago||
Yup, in my benchmarks usually medium or high do better than xhigh or max
selicos 4 hours ago||||
Even better at the local LLM stage, where QFN can catch a mistake in prior work and patch it without any subscription costs at all. then I can use a cloud model for polish and finish and move on.

I'm building stuff at home with my work focused on managing infra. If anyone wants to sponsor a SOTA model subscription I will check it out. Until then I'll see how flexible a Strix Halo setup and my homelab can be.

Gareth321 5 hours ago|||
Asking people to guess beforehand how much intelligence they require for a task will hopefully be a relic soon. We’re lacking useful routing techniques which accurately pick the right model for the job. Or a high intelligence model which completes simple tasks fast and cheap. Or something else.
XCSme 4 hours ago||
Yeah, an xhigh models should know a task is easy and respond quicker.
viraptor 4 hours ago|||
I have some tasks that deserve a bit more reasoning but for a long time most of my needs have been met by mid-range models, rather than the big ones. There's barely any motivation for me these days to use something more advanced than Terra on low/medium for everyday work. For a personal agent doing occasional coding, I'm still on Mimo flash.

I think many people still expect their tasks to need something more fancy, but could do with a reset of expectations and try to go much lower.

XCSme 5 hours ago|||
Same, I either use xhigh on best model, or use cheapest and fastest models (mercury/jev/haiku/luna)
kccqzy 4 hours ago||
In the Opus 4.6 days xhigh was a meaningful improvement. These days with Opus 5.5 I just don’t see a meaningful quality increase.
XCSme 4 hours ago||
In executing tasks no, but in generating assets, art, UI, etc, higher reasoning leads to drastic improvements.
deaux 4 hours ago||
Production pipelines for non-coding usage. Jagged edge is very real. Just one example, loads of tasks where Gemma 4 26ba4b wipes the floor with Deepseek Flash v4.1. On Artificial Analysis-like benchmarks, the latter is many times more "intelligent". Not everything in the world is coding and math, but those are easy to "measure". Things that are hard to measure aren't part of their benchmarks.
ngomezdev 4 hours ago||
Wow. On paper this looks like the best Gemini release OAT. They really dialed in the usage and cost issues.

On the AA benchmark it kinda makes Sonnet and Terra look weak. Hopefully that translates to real world usage. Can’t wait to try it out.

jjcm 2 hours ago||
I'm very impressed with it as a model for image->html builds. It's the first non-anthropic low-param model that successfully captures complex flows.

Comparisons:

Hydrogen: https://html.non.io/lcars-gemini-4-hydrogen

Sonnet 5.5: https://html.non.io/lcars-sonnet-5.5/

Original designs: https://diffui.ai/app/canvas/5093e689-1e74-4f26-b632-2a4500f...

IMO it sits between sonnet and opus in terms of quality, and is equivalent with gpt sol (for this particular benchmark). Google did a great job with this.

jeremyjjj 5 hours ago||
Good they are able to replace Flash. And cool this is available to everyone via search. But I still don’t understand Googles strategy with these new models.

For pro sub, Argon is still very limited and Carbon is only available on Ultra. This is not competitive at all. To say nothing of also being locked into Antigravity.

ajjahs 5 hours ago|
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qnleigh 2 hours ago||
How do you actually use hydrogen in the app? The only model selection options I see are "auto," "code and analysis Argon 4" which is paid, and 3 thinking levels.
data-ottawa 3 hours ago||
Nice upgrade from 3.8 flash.

My use case benchmarks 37% more expensive per task but 40-60% of the total time per task (median and p90 had the same improvement).

Both models were smart enough to complete all eval tasks, speed was the main thing we were struggling with. Both models on medium reasoning.

Overall feels like a good upgrade.

behat 5 hours ago||
The orchestrator in Antigravity might be the most important part of this release. I'm excited that this is being built natively into harnesses.
WarmWash 5 hours ago||
I really hope hydrogen keeps the excellent conversational ability of 3.8 flash. For brainstorming or even decoding the dense output of the powerhouse models, flash was a real delight to use. Its the first non-SOTA model that I would actually go to often over the larger models, it was fast, plenty smart enough, and generally wrote really well. Here's to hoping hydrogen keeps that up
deaux 4 hours ago|
In the Gemini app of over the API? In the app Ive found it to write poorly, probably a system prompt thing. I've done some stuff with Argon over the API and it wrote well.
modeless 5 hours ago||
This is a good blog post because of the graphs comparing directly to Terra and Sonnet for both wall-clock time and cost per task. This is the exact information I'm looking for.

My TL;DR is: seems like a better choice than Sonnet in areas outside of coding, and at high reasoning it's smarter than Terra but somewhat more expensive.

arizen 2 hours ago|
Can anyone compare usage allowance on Google subscriptions vs Claude or Codex?
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