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Posted by simonebrunozzi 5 hours ago

Will we put data centers in space?(www.forethought.org)
45 points | 138 comments
asciimike 4 hours ago|
The viability of space DCs seem to depend entirely on the existence of higher latency, lower throughput, single card to single server workloads, which IMO isn't the primary class of workload today (and if one holds the belief that frontier models will maintain their dominant position, this will remain rack/row/facility level, which isn't viable for orbital facilities to handle as currently designed).

If that workload does expand in usage, and the economics of orbital DCs make sense (with high launch costs, zero ability to do maintenance, and weight penalties for shielding and radiators), then surely ocean based data centers (e.g. Panthalassa) make more sense (lower 'launch' costs, high but existant latency on maintenance, no weight penalties), and if those make sense then surely the distributed land based facilities (e.g. Rune Energy) or home based facilities (e.g. Span XFRA) make even more sense (easier maintenance, low/no permitting overhead because they're covered by existing permits, reasonable quality terrestrial fiber internet).

svara 1 hour ago||
I don't think it's quite as crazy as you make it sound.

Per unit area, the radiators dissipate a similar amount of energy as the solar panels do, so they'll be a similar size. That's doable.

The upside is there's no land and power generation or grid connection issue; you get solar power 24/7 and the latency to earth is just a few ms.

It would also be possible to fly the individual satellites close together so that you can do high bandwidth optical links between them, i.e. you're not limited to single rack workloads.

A single GB200 rack costs about $3M, transporting its 1.4 tons on a Falcon 9 would cost a similar amount, around $4-5M.

That's got to be too expensive for now, but it's also not in a range that's totally off.

The idea is essentially a bet on land and power continuing to be a big issue and launch costs getting a lot cheaper, which they very well might with Starship. The rest is engineering challenges that are probably solvable.

treyd 1 hour ago|||
>you get solar power 24/7 and the latency to earth is just a few ms.

Not at the same time. To have few-ms latency you need to be in/below LEO, but then earth blocks the sun half the time.

svara 1 hour ago||
It can be done in a dawn-dusk, sun synchronous orbit, less than 1000 km up.
jltsiren 27 minutes ago|||
Low Earth orbit is 90 to 120 minutes, depending on altitude. Even if the satellite is currently close to you, it will soon be on the other side of the world.

Assuming that orbital data centers make sense, it will be an interesting challenge to figure out how to best mitigate that. Short tasks that require little data will be easy, but everything else needs rethinking. Can you tolerate variable latency? Should you duplicate the data across many satellites? Or should the data constantly migrate from satellite to satellite?

echoangle 45 minutes ago|||
That’s at least 20 ms of round trip time, realistically much more. Especially since it’s not geostationary so the distance to the closest ground station will in most cases be much longer than straight down. I would be surprised if the average ping is below 100 ms.

Probably still fine for most applications though.

asciimike 41 minutes ago||
Latency isn't really the issue here (lots of inference serving happening across oceans, which is probably 100-150ms RT), but bandwidth ends up becoming an issue for large scale transfers (mostly model weights, not the actual inference tokens/queries).
echoangle 29 minutes ago||
With laser terminals you’ll get a few gigabits per second. That’s possible both between sats and to the ground station. Probably not cheap though.
asciimike 52 minutes ago|||
Finding land/power/space to do a _single_ rack is not hard as ~every office building in America has 200kW of extra power and HVAC water at ~25C. Plus it only costs $4-5k to stick that $5M rack in the back of a truck to drive it there. No permits, easy maintenance, stable network connectivity.

Why use a satellite to do what your IT closet can already do?

semiquaver 32 minutes ago||
People are fudging orders of magnitude because it sounds cool and they are stupid.
dboreham 2 hours ago||
I don't think we need that many words. It's an obviously preposterously stupid idea that has been promoted only to defraud investors.
EA-3167 11 minutes ago|||
Unfortunately most people even here don’t have a working knowledge of the relevant tech, and seem to lack a similar grasp of the thermodynamics.

A non-trivial number still think that the hard part of colonizing Mars is the rocket to get there. What can you do?

rightnutwingjob 2 hours ago||||
Correct.

And putting things in the ocean is only marginally less idiotic due primarily to sea water being corrosive, wet, and full of creatures that tend to want to grow all over anything.

NortySpock 1 hour ago||
Microsoft did attempt ocean racks in a sealed container , and it sounded like the 3 year test ended successfully but was not renewed.

I presume the cost of setup, teardown, lead-time, low power density when scaled up, and lack of convenient access for mid-life repairs made it not worth the trouble

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/natick/

horsawlarway 1 hour ago|||
Yes, but that apparently proves the point of the poster above you.

The moderate improvements in cooling we're not worth the extra complexity.

So it just didn't make sense to do outside of a single media stunt project.

Data centers in space don't even get the cooling benefit.

The whole idea just doesn't survive modest consideration. Data centers aren't particularly dangerous. There's no forcing function to put them away from where people live. The best location for a data center is going to be a decent sized urban center with existing utilities (power and network) and acceptable land costs.

There are nearly forty of them in Atlanta, people walk by them every day with no idea what they are.

cogman10 1 hour ago|||
This is the sort of thing that highlights why space is such a dumb place to put a DC.

Everything about storing a DC underwater is easier than it is in space (except corrosion).

It's easier to access, cheaper, easier to cool, easier to get enough power, easier to update.

Heck, doing a second story data-center resolves a ton of issues with today's data-centers (while being a bit more expensive due to additional structural support requirements).

There are so many options for terrestrial DCs to overcome whatever problem space might supposedly solve, and they are all cheaper than the space solution.

dgoldstein0 1 hour ago|||
how is power easier? solar power in orbit seems like a no-brainer - no losses due to the atmosphere / weather, and with the right orbit you can get sun all the time. Was the ocean DC tide-powered or something? how does that compare?
bayindirh 1 minute ago|||
It looks like ISS can generate 240KW peak from 2500m2 of solar panels, and runs at half of that nominally [0].

A single B200 can consume up to 1200W. A single GB300 system needs 14.5kW. So, you can only have ~15 (incl. satellite's energy needs) GB300 with ISS' solar panels, which is absurd. See [1] for the size of the panels we're talking about.

People dream about Starlink-style close flying systems to aggregate them to a single data center. With these power requirements, it's more like an AI hallucination. If we can build way more efficient chips or run smaller models on modest hardware, etc. We may go there, but needing ISS sized solar panels to run frontier models in space?

Also, don't forget the radiators. You also need those to pump that heat out of these systems.

The outlook doesn't look good at this point.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_panels_on_spacecraft#Spa...

[1]: https://www.sgmk.edu.pl/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/iss.png

cogman10 55 minutes ago||||
In space, you have to deploy all the power production you want to consume in the same package that's consuming that power.

On earth, you can build a power plant miles from the DC. And you can use all sorts of different sources of power, tidal, wind, nuclear, solar, fossil fuels. All options. And like the DC, if there's a problem with any of those sources, you can go fix it or replace it with different power sources. If there's a problem with the solar panels in space, your DC is dead.

That's both easier and a lot more flexible.

munchbunny 1 hour ago|||
In Microsoft’s case, they ran a cable, which is much simpler to do than putting solar panels in orbit.
chmod775 1 hour ago|||
> except corrosion

Spacecraft in LEO deal with corrosion from - among other causes - atomic oxygen atoms up there, which are eager to cause oxidation in almost anything they come in contact with. The rate of this can be greater than on Earth's surface, though I'm not sure how oceans compare for corrosion.

Overall it's probably true that it's less of an issue than with sea water, but it's not a nonissue either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrosion_in_space

blensor 1 hour ago||||
That being said. If I were an AI, I would lobby for datacenters in space as hard as I can to put the off switch comfortably out of reach of humans.
haglin 45 minutes ago||
The benefit is that they will fall down in 5-10 years.

That's an automatic off switch.

tartoran 27 minutes ago||
That's an eternity for an exponentially growing intelligence.
AnimalMuppet 21 minutes ago||
Exponentially growing on the same hardware? That's... optimistic. Not, IMO, realistic.
bliteben 1 hour ago|||
I think if we manufactured most of the infrastructure and maybe the chips or solar panels in space it might actually make sense. Nobody is talking about that though, I guess Elon is saving the we will make the solar panels in space for a down quarter.
rbanffy 58 minutes ago|||
I would not expect that to happen any sooner than 50 years from now. If a flight to the Moon on a Starship really requires a dozen refuelling flights, then we need an even bigger rocket (because the larger a rocket is, the more efficient it gets). Then we need to develop and build automated and teleoperated lunar factories, maybe ship the electronics from Earth for final assembly on the Moon, establish lunar mining and metalworking to build the structures, motors, actuators, solar panels, radiators, find raw materials and process them into heat exchanger fluids and propellants, and launch the satellites at least to Lunar orbit so they can self propel to their destination orbit where latency is not two seconds.

Even with an intelligence explosion guiding the development of all these technologies, it’d take many decades.

skort 1 hour ago|||
How would it make sense? Have you seen how things are manufactured? Why would you want to make something harder and more expensive than it has to be? It's delusional to think that these things will work better in space/on mars than on earth.
rbanffy 54 minutes ago||
Some metallurgy on the Moon might be easier - at least the atmosphere doesn’t want to react with the materials. For other processes, you actually want some of the atmosphere to do exactly that.

We’ll need to develop base industries from scratch for these environments, but, eventually, we’ll get there. The downside is that it’ll take at least multiple decades, if not more than a century.

pu_pe 3 hours ago||
The article makes several big assumptions that are questionable (experimental cooling can scale, permit issues on land will only become worse, etc). But more importantly, their analysis of the risks of placing a data center in orbit is completely off. They mention that it costs tens of millions to launch a missile to destroy a satellite, and it might be cheaper to simply replace it (based on launch costs). But one strike can hit many targets, those targets may contain hardware costing multiple times the value of their launch, and you will be out of compute while you scramble to launch a replacement. We can also assume that placing big fat valuable targets in space would have many actors wondering how to make it cheaper to destroy them.

For those reasons alone, and because compute will become more and more strategic for defense, I find it very hard to believe that data centers in space will represent even 5% of all compute in the next 10 years. I think a higher proportion will rather be underground or in bunkers than in space.

FranOntanaya 3 hours ago||
Space is like the deep ocean, you never really know what's lurking in the shadows. A well placed pebble, a pellet of paint or a beam of microwaves could ruin a fragile satellite without being none the wiser.

If you want a safer datacenter you put it underground and you can safely assume that if it's hit by a bunker buster you have much much bigger problems.

hkpack 3 hours ago|||
Defense compute can move to bunkers, but that is probably small percentage of overall need
red-iron-pine 1 hour ago||
you just need one missile, maybe 2-3.

space debris will ruin the rest.

baxtr 4 hours ago||
From the article:

Conclusions

Orbital data centers look more viable than we expected going in and the case rests primarily on launch cost. The engineering challenges seem significant but none appear intractable. Commercial off-the-shelf solar, passive radiators, and standard error-correcting codes seem sufficient for a baseline architecture. We expect limited demos and shipments of compute to orbit in the coming years but our best estimate is that orbital data centers are unlikely to represent a meaningful share of compute before 2030. They might scale quickly thereafter however, and are more likely to be bottlenecked by chip production rates rather than by launch cadence. A generally important dynamic is that terrestrial data centers likely face headwinds that worsen as compute scales up while orbital data centers face constraints that relax with scale.

rightnutwingjob 1 hour ago||
This is complete bullshit.

Anyone who thinks we’ll have data centres in space before we have a civilisation changing step up in surface to orbit space drives and materials science is an idiot.

How the hell does anyone think a rocket is ever going to compete with a prime mover towing two trailers, or an ocean going vessel.

We’re not exactly short of land.

And no, space is not cold.

carabiner 1 hour ago||
All of this sounds a lot like how ULA, ESA thought reusable rockets were a pipe dream. These are engineering challenges, not physical laws that need to be broken.
rf15 1 hour ago|||
yeah, but: Data centers, fundamentally, are a solved problem. The rest is just cost balancing - and space looks like complete rubbish when it comes to all kinds of costs, including and especially when it comes to maintenance.
EA-3167 8 minutes ago|||
This sounds like someone who concludes that FTL is possible because “once people thought that flight was impossible!”

But we have and had ample evidence of flight in nature, we just didn’t understand how it worked. A similar search across the observable universe reveals no sign of FTL behavior.

Sometimes when you understand the science a comparison to some time when people didn’t isn’t as moving or compelling as you seem to imagine.

marcosdumay 4 hours ago||
And all those conclusions take is cost to space to reduce 15 times; new cooling tech that isn't used anywhere to work at scale but only in space (if ground datacenters can use it too, their cost decrease); that ops cost line to not do anything useful so it can be just dropped; those 10mm radiation shields to not weight anything, because they didn't enter the costs; and that ground datacenters to use more expensive tech than they use today (just not improving is not enough).

We will have space datacenters some day. But I'm not holding my breath.

rightnutwingjob 1 hour ago||
We can just repurpose Deep Space 9, the Cardassians aren’t using it and nobody really cares about Bajor.
siliconc0w 1 hour ago||
Even put launch cost aside and assuming the best case for starship, most of the whitepapers I've seen seem to hand-wave the weight, cost, and complexity of cooling. You need large panels with special coating, pumps, and pipes - and that will get hit with micro-meteors so you need redundancy.

Land based or even sea wave-based datacenters are all much more feasible.

drayfield 1 hour ago||
This premise always struck me as a solution in search of a problem, which when implemented introduces even more problems.
stillpointlab 19 minutes ago||
The more I read HN the more I realize that I am more of an empiricist than a rationalist.

So many people here are opining as if they are correct. I have a large amount of doubt and I like the fact that the world is structured so that people can try things out and see if it works.

If the world was run by the naysayers in this thread, almost nothing would ever get done.

lordnacho 1 hour ago||
You can put computers in space, but can you really call it a data centre at the scale that it can be done at?

Surely a single AWS/GCP/Azure/etc DC on earth is so big we won't be getting close to a similar amount of compute in space for the foreseeable?

The economic case also needs to be explained. What are people going to do with a DC in space?

sroussey 1 hour ago||
The only use case for datacenter in space is to have high communication speed with satellites that have low compute. Though that does beg the question of why not just add more compute to those satellites going forward.
Ekaros 1 hour ago||
Outside cost of launch I have understood that scaling it to sufficient power envelope with needed cooling is biggest step which most likely makes it unreasonable at scale. That is being able to use enough power to get reasonable amount of compute. Scale it small and low power enough and it is pretty simple. But at that point you might not be talking about amount of compute you expect.

Especially fun when you consider how often gigawatts are talked about with AI. And what that would mean just for cooling as in area... Or then dividing that to sufficient number of individual satellites...

LostInTheWoods 39 minutes ago|
Perhaps companies should consider putting their data centers underground (out of sight and out of mind). Space seems incredibly expensive and risky in comparison.
thepryz 28 minutes ago||
I’m thinking semi-mobile datacenters near active volcanos powered by the heat of the lava/magna flows would be “cool”
MisterMunchkin 35 minutes ago|||
Oh I'm sorry, are you not even thinking of the lesser American ground worm? We're going to need a 15 year weevil analysis just to even think about digging a one metre borehole to test whether the worms will be affected.
wry_xy 18 minutes ago||
Or maybe we should just stop trying to centralize compute in the first place...
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